Problem Dogs

[Reddii]

I was thinking the other day how lucky I am with my two dogs - no real behavioural problems and both coming along quite well in our chosen dog sports. There are just a couple of things I'm not entirely happy with, but we are making good progress on. Barking in their crate when their mate is working and a manic hatred of possums (my fault) are two that come to mind immediately. So not really major stuff in the scheme of things.

At least some of this I put down to our dedication to the dogs, but obviously a large amount of it is inbuilt. Boy dog is a little bit challenging as he grows up, and my girl is very exciteable, but neither really challenges me in a serious way. Yes, there are challenges and training issues to be worked through, but most people would be delighted to live with them the way they are.

Then I started wondering - puppy problems and stressed out new owners (like me) aside how many dogs that are trained by the average handler (and I mean on going training like obedience, agility etc not just level 1 & maybe 2 at the obedience club) end up as 'problem' dogs. Have you seen examples where experienced handlers have not been able to cope with a puppy as it grows into a dog.

I don't mean taking a rescue dog with an unknown history or a dog that has had a traumatic experience like an attack, but a well bred run of the mill dog that is a real challenge even for the average dog club member - someone with a history in dogs and somewhat of a training background.

I'd be interested in your thoughts. Nature or nurture?

[Lablover]

I do not know what you mean, .......remembering of course, I am easily confused, he he.

Is your question dog age related, (our) requirements/standards etc?

Experienced handlers normally know what their dogs problems are and work on their dogs weak points (hopefully not boring the dog in the process).

[Tonymc]

Reddii,I guess your post is all about the meaning or interpretation of the context that your using the word experience in.

Reddii ,correct me if I am on the wrong horse,but perhaps owner may have fit into your context better.A Handler to me is somebody I expect to have more experience than the average owner.I also expect a Handler to have experience with a range wide range of dogs.

If somebody was calling themselves an experienced handler and yet were having trouble with a Pup,I would have to say they are not as experienced as they believe. Tony

[Tonymc]

Further thoughts Reddii.

Many dogs are not problem but do have problems due to the Human that is attatched to the end of the lead.

So many misread Dogs

So many try to make a Dog something he is not

So many do not allow a dog to be a dog

So many wrap a dog in cotton wool

So many transpose their human issues onto the dog. Tony

[Reddii]

Reddii,I guess your post is all about the meaning or interpretation of the context that your using the word experience in.

Reddii ,correct me if I am on the wrong horse,but perhaps owner may have fit into your context better.A Handler to me is somebody I expect to have more experience than the average owner.I also expect a Handler to have experience with a range wide range of dogs.

If somebody was calling themselves an experienced handler and yet were having trouble with a Pup,I would have to say they are not as experienced as they believe. Tony

yes, owner is probably a better word, although I consider I am my dog's handler when we are agility trialling, herding etc. That said I'm not confident I am equipped to handle major problems or a very dominant dog, nor am I very experienced.

Essentially what you are saying (and answering my question along the way if I am right) is that from a pup it would be rare for anyone with experience, knowledge and commitment to have unmanageable problems develop, barring unforseen events and badly wired dogs.

I guess put another way, do you consider the vast majority of the problems we see in dogs to be the result of a lack of commitment or are there 'problem dogs' - ones that a somewhat experienced owner might not be able to deal with.

[Nekhbet]

There are some dogs that are genuinely 'problem dogs' and you can see that from a pup - there is definately a screw loose and the best thing for everyone is PTS.

I just put down a dog recently that was a rescue and so beyond any help that in itself wasnt extremely cruel. No one I knew could come up with a better answer then PTS or extreme sedation. This was a dog that ripped timber off the wall, nearly smashed a window (lucky it was a fraction open he just bent the frame), and ran around screaming if he couldnt see me for more then 10 seconds - this escalated worst and worst on a daily basis.

Many problems stem from :

- wrong dog for that owner - many people look at the 'look' of the breed without considering the actual physical and mental needs of the dog. IE kelpies that get a walk twice a day but spend 8 hrs in a small yard then owner wonders why the dog barks at passers by. The working line shepherd that stands and barks at the sky during the day. THe labrador that digs all over the yard but has heaps of toys.

This can also come down to (and I'm not bashing anyones methods at all) but refusal to use the right methods for the dogs problems. I use what works for the dog AS LONG AS ITS NOT CRUEL. If a dog needs a prong, or a halti, or flat collar, or purely positive whatever. Dont plug away at something that doesnt work adn what scares me is owners that refuse to correct their dogs because it may 'hurt their feelings'

- lack of education - since I started this job i have been ASTOUNDED to what some professionals will tell owners. A fence jumping Basenji a vet told the owner toe TETHER unattended for up to 10hrs a day... FFS

[Frieda]

Only speaking from my own experience but I think temperment of the dog as well as the owners ability in training that dog go hand in hand. There is problem dogs out there and some people/owners make the problem worse without even realising that they are the problem. But if that problem dog went to someone that has had plenty of experience with dogs it may turn out differently. Then there is those dogs that are a lost cause and need to be PTS, kinder to the dog that way. We cannot rescue all the dogs that have a problem especially if they are a danger to themselves or others.

The other thing what is anyones version of an experienced handler? I had someone come up to me and ask me if I was a professional dog trainer (probably coz I am always in the park with my dogs), I laughed and said no, just a dog owner. I beleive that you can never be complacent in dog handling and should always be learning.

And my own personal opinion people need to look at the temperment of the parents before buying puppies or dogs. I have done this with horses and I am now doing it with dogs.