Reinforcing Crying While Crate Training?

[Joypod]

Hi everyone,

I'm FINALLY getting my puppy this Saturday. Meet Gus (he'll be 11 weeks old when I get him):

Now, even though I've read about crate training to within an inch of my life, I'm still slightly confused... believe it or not.

Gus will be in his crate during the night so do I take him out of his crate (possibly waking him in the process) every 3 hours or so to take him outside to the toilet, or do I wait until he cries to let me know that he needs to go?

My concern with waiting until he cries is that I'll just be reinforcing that behaviour if I then let him out. That's not really what I want... is it?

The thing is waking him up every few hours to take him outside doesn't seem ideal either!

What did you guys do?

Ta

Vic

[Janba]

I usually wait till they cry to go out. At 11 weeks he can hold on for longer than an 8 week old puppy so may go through the night without needing to go if you toilet him just before you go to bed. I have found with mine the cry for needing to go to the toilet was different to the cry for attention. With my older BC boy it was a musical sing song whine that wasn't that loud. The cry for attention was a scream. The younger pup I got at 11 weeks also and he slept through the night from the start.

If your crate is large compared to you pups size you might want to partition it off to make it smaller. If the crate is too large they can get far enough away from where they are sleeping to still pee in it.

ETA He's lovely

Edited December 11, 2007 by Janba

[poodlefan]

Where will the crate be?

If it's close by the bed and you're a light sleeper, I'd be waiting until he stirs.

If it's not, I'd be setting the alarm clock.

Darcy has never cried to be let out of anything to toilet.. he just goes.

Edited December 11, 2007 by poodlefan

[The Spotted Devil]

When my 8 week old pup arrived home, he was already trained to toilet on newspaper.....so I had a nice cosy crate (door off) in the laundry for him....bowl of water, puppy kong with a few biscuits for chomping on, lots of newspaper near his crate, a very soft lamp to help him find his way and a radio to keep him company. It worked a treat and I never had to get up in the night for him! He only toileted overnight 4-5 times over 10 days and never did again. After the first few times I reduced the spread of newspaper to ensure he wasn't just toileting anywhere. It may not work for everyone but it worked brilliantly for us

Enjoy your puppy!!!

[Joypod]

I usually wait till they cry to go out. At 11 weeks he can hold on for longer than an 8 week old puppy so may go through the night without needing to go if you toilet him just before you go to bed. I have found with mine the cry for needing to go to the toilet was different to the cry for attention. With my older BC boy it was a musical sing song whine that wasn't that loud. The cry for attention was a scream. The younger pup I got at 11 weeks also and he slept through the night from the start.

If your crate is large compared to you pups size you might want to partition it off to make it smaller. If the crate is too large they can get far enough away from where they are sleeping to still pee in it.

ETA He's lovely

Hi Janba.

I've got a crate large enough for him when he's fully grown and yep, I've partitioned off about a third of it.

I suppose my concern is, how do I recognise a cry for attention as opposed to a cry to go to the toilet? I'll still be getting to know him those first few nights.

Where will the crate be?

If it's close by the bed and you're a light sleeper, I'd be waiting until he stirs.

If it's not, I'd be setting the alarm clock.

Darcy has never cried to be let out of anything to toilet.. he just goes.

Hi Poodlefan.

The crate will be in the kitchen and I'm planning to sleep on the couch in the loungeroom (next to the kitchen) for the first few nights while I'm getting to know him, his sounds and his needs, etc.

Yeah, see that's my concern with a Frenchie. They're not particularly vocal (well, some certainly are with their death yodel) but most are very quiet dogs. How often would you get up for an 11 week old? I don't want to be waking him up any more than necessary.

;)

[DistinctivelyTish]

What a cute pup!

I agree, pups make a different sound when they need to go to the toilet. It sounds more 'urgent' if that makes sense. With us, it was a bit of trial and error before I could recognise it. Morgan would whine for attention (we kept her in the laundry) for ages, and after a while, if she needed to go to the toilet, the whining would somehow sound different. You can usually pick up on it.

Waking him up depends on your schedule as well. With Morgan, I woke her up twice but only because I am a late-riser (also read as lazy). So I let her go to the toilet before putting her to bed. Then woke her up once in the middle of the night, say around 4-5 hours after putting her to bed. Then once again in the early morning (around 7-8am). If you wake up early, then you probably only need to get her up once in the middle of the night. That way, she didn't have to 'go' in the crate and start a bad habit of doing so.

[Poodle wrangler]

If you're lucky enough to get 9 hours sleep, I'd plan to get up twice for the pup to toilet.

Better to cut back than allow pup to toilet in the crate.

No fussing, chat or play at toilet time- all business!

[poodlefan]

Yup.. from memory I got up at around 1.00 am and 5.00 am...

I thought I'd blocked that out of my memory.

[aurora :)]

cute staffy!

im getting a staffy soon too

my second one

dont do crate training..

its cruel

(in my opinion)

it will take a while to train it to be comfortable in it

as it will be scared at first

there are pros and cons of both ways;

letting it cry:

- it will learn that thats what to do whenever it needs to go

- it will learn how to let you know when it really needs to go

getting up every 3 hours:

- it will get used to you doing that so it will be a bit weird when you stop

- it will get into a good pattern and will get used to waiting a bit

but yeah.. i dont think crate training is a good idea

[cavNrott]

Tell us how much experience you have had with dogs and with crate training. Tell us why crate training is cruel and why you are advising against it. Perhaps you can list the negatives for us.

The doors of my crates are always left open and my two small dogs choose to go in their crates of their own accord at times, during the day. They don't sleep in them at night, they sleep on my bed.

[stormie]

JoyPod - Congrats on the new puppy!!

Crate training is a great idea for a puppy. It gives them a safe place to go and sleep, much like a cosy den in the wild. It is by no means cruel! It's also very handy having a dog that's used to sleeping in a crate for times when the dog may have to board, or stay overnight in hospital at the vets.

it will take a while to train it to be comfortable in it

as it will be scared at first

I'm sorry, but what a load of crap. There is no reason at all the the dog will be scared at first. Most dogs take to their crates within a day or two. I'd like to know what you're basing this on and what your experience is with dogs in crates?

I got Orbit, my dane puppy, when he was 10wks old and had a crate big enough for him for almost adult size. I had never crate trained a dog before, so this was my first experience. I had a bed big enough for the whole crate, minus room for food and water bowls. I did originally set my alarm for about 1am and 5am, but found that every time, he woke me before then when he needed to go. Even though his crate was so big, he never once, and still hasn't, toileted in his crate.

This might sound strange, but I think you just have a fair idea of what the crying is about. I take orbit to the toilet just before bed, so any crying after that, I know is attention. During the night if he needs to go, its a different cry. (mind you, Orbit generally uses some kind of telepathic stare which always seems to wake me up!) It really is a 'don't wanna wake you, but please, i really need to pee' kinda cry!!

Goodluck, and try not to stress about it. Keep it all relaxed and pretend like crating is all the norm the first time you introduce puppy to the crate. You'll be fine!!!

Edited December 17, 2007 by stormie

[Animal House]

cute staffy!

im getting a staffy soon too

my second one

dont do crate training..

its cruel

(in my opinion)

it will take a while to train it to be comfortable in it

as it will be scared at first

there are pros and cons of both ways;

letting it cry:

- it will learn that thats what to do whenever it needs to go

- it will learn how to let you know when it really needs to go

getting up every 3 hours:

- it will get used to you doing that so it will be a bit weird when you stop

- it will get into a good pattern and will get used to waiting a bit

but yeah.. i dont think crate training is a good idea

Im pretty sure the little cutie in the photo is a French Bulldog.

Crate training isnt cruel, its one of the best things you can do for your dog.

I would be taking your pup out for a wee at set times, (obviously right before bed time) and then a few hours later, and once again early morning.

Dont stress, just be guided by your puppys needs, and enjoy.

[gillbear]

Tell us how much experience you have had with dogs and with crate training. Tell us why crate training is cruel and why you are advising against it. Perhaps you can list the negatives for us.

The doors of my crates are always left open and my two small dogs choose to go in their crates of their own accord at times, during the day. They don't sleep in them at night, they sleep on my bed.

Please note Aurora is 13yo.

[cavNrott]

Please note Aurora is 13yo.

Oh, I missed that bit...now I get it

[cfc_4_ever]

it will take a while to train it to be comfortable in it

as it will be scared at first

I dont agree with that. I got my dal pup on Sunday. He was put next to his crate when he came home with all his toys in it. Within an hour he would go and claim my other dogs toys and take them to his crate. It was also where he has been going to go to sleep (or the sofa). So if he was scared didnt show it.

Also with crate training, I wait for him to cry before i get up. On sunday night it was at about 230am and again at 6am, Monday bout 230am and 5am. Last night it was only 5am. This is also the only time that he has cried at all while being in his crate. I also believe it works wonders. I open the door he walks straight outside does his buisness, get praised (the only time i talk to him), then he goes back into his crate. The only time i have had problems getting him back in is at 6am when the sun was up and i think he thought that it was time for the day to start. Other than that within 20min i am back in bed and so is he.

It has meant Kruzer (who by the way is sleeping in his crate right now, door open) has peed inside about 4 times (6 weeks old, mainly because i have missed the signs, or havent heard him at the door), and NEVER pooed inside. Now i never crate trained my beagle, (got at 8 weeks also), and there is no way she took to it so quick.

So Crate Training!!!

[sas]

Dante would actually cry to let me know he needed out......he was such a good boy in that respect.

[Joypod]

Just a quick update about Gus's crate training. He was wonderful. Went pretty much straight into his crate within the first couple of hours of being home. He didn't mind one bit being in there and still knows it means sleep time.

Up until the last couple of nights, I'd been getting up with him for a toilet break around 3am or 4am. Last night, he slept through until 6am so things are improving. It's been much easier than I expected. He never cried to be let out but would sit up and be sort of restless... so I knew he was uncomfortable.

I'd never crate trained before but I'm a convert now. Oh, and he's never once gone to the toilet in his crate and at nearly 13 weeks old (on Tuesday) is about 90% toilet trained.

Here a pic from him from yesterday. He was recovering from a bout of gastro which is why he's looking a bit sorry for himself.

[Andisa]

Just a quick update about Gus's crate training. He was wonderful. Went pretty much straight into his crate within the first couple of hours of being home. He didn't mind one bit being in there and still knows it means sleep time.

Up until the last couple of nights, I'd been getting up with him for a toilet break around 3am or 4am. Last night, he slept through until 6am so things are improving. It's been much easier than I expected. He never cried to be let out but would sit up and be sort of restless... so I knew he was uncomfortable.

I'd never crate trained before but I'm a convert now. Oh, and he's never once gone to the toilet in his crate and at nearly 13 weeks old (on Tuesday) is about 90% toilet trained.

Here a pic from him from yesterday. He was recovering from a bout of gastro which is why he's looking a bit sorry for himself.

Well done. What a beautiful puppy.

I love the crates. I got to admit before I ever had a crate I used to think they were cruel. So not true. They are fantastic. Toilet training is a breeze and it gives the dogs a "den" of their own. I just love them.

Edited December 31, 2007 by Lisa M