Misdiagnosed Abuse

[Tonymc]

I have like many of us,run into all sorts in the Dog World.Some know a bit,some know alot and some are woeful.

I would like a Dollar for everytime I have met a do-gooder who claims their Dog was abused by somebody in the past.Sometimes of course this may be true, but many times the person making the statement has no clue whatsoever and it is a total misdiagnosis.

I was looking through a few sites and came across this which I think says it well.

Quote from Beth Bradley.

Too often, people equate setting boundaries and being the pack leader with compulsion or being tough on their dogs. I see it more often with rescue dogs and their owners. Owners who rescue their dogs obsess about what a sad life their dog had and what must have happened to in the past. In turn, they allow the dog to get away with anything without any correction or minimal correction. These owners are “protecting” their dogs from the past. The problem is that they are transmitting fear and weakness. No dog wants to follow a weak leader; therefore, these dogs (a) begin to feel comfortable in their new environment and (b) begin to take over the role as pack leader thereby showing behavioral problems that did not rear their head before.

Tony

[Staff'n'Toller]

I have to say the 'he must have been abused' line gives me the total sh!ts too. I'm the same tonymc- I'd be rich if I had a dollar every time I heard it.

Quite often I reply now with "well not necessarily abused, just not socialised during the critical periods".

Mel.

Edited December 9, 2007 by Staff'n'Toller

[Kavik]

So true!

I looked after an 8 month old GSD for a few months. She was timid around people and scared of men particularly. Heaps of people asked me if she had been abused. I knew the history of the pup, and she simply hadn't been socialised - been in a yard her whole life.

[persephone]

Yep..often I have seen a timid pup..maybe even a hand-shy one... and was told how it's breeder/owner must have abused it...

I try to explain that ,like people, AFAIK, some pups are born sensitive/nervous/timid.

Our current pup, Widget, is a case in point.... she has been very submissive and 'timid' since she could walk.... she certainly hadn't been smacked/or abused !!

It's an interesting one.

[Janba]

I agree Tonymc.

A very respected international trainer once said to me at a clinic, when I made a comment about something my dog was doing was the result of her past, that it isn't how your dog was treated before you got it that matters but how you are treating it now and addressing problems that arise.

Dogs don't live in the past they live in the present. Yes they may come with bad habits and fears, but we rarely know what caused them so can only train and use behaviour modification for the behaviour we see. Most dogs don't thank you for being a weak leader and weak leadership can actually elevate a dogs stress levels and fears if the dog is not a natural leader.

[Eileen]

I have like many of us,run into all sorts in the Dog World.Some know a bit,some know alot and some are woeful.

I would like a Dollar for everytime I have met a do-gooder who claims their Dog was abused by somebody in the past.Sometimes of course this may be true, but many times the person making the statement has no clue whatsoever and it is a total misdiagnosis.

I was looking through a few sites and came across this which I think says it well.

Quote from Beth Bradley.

Too often, people equate setting boundaries and being the pack leader with compulsion or being tough on their dogs. I see it more often with rescue dogs and their owners. Owners who rescue their dogs obsess about what a sad life their dog had and what must have happened to in the past. In turn, they allow the dog to get away with anything without any correction or minimal correction. These owners are “protecting” their dogs from the past. The problem is that they are transmitting fear and weakness. No dog wants to follow a weak leader; therefore, these dogs (a) begin to feel comfortable in their new environment and (b) begin to take over the role as pack leader thereby showing behavioral problems that did not rear their head before.

Tony

Talk about synchronicity, Tony! I watched the Dog Whisperer this arvo and it was on this very topic! It was very interesting.

[Tonymc]

Thank you all kindly for the input.Seems to be a common problem.In my case,some of the do-gooders pushing this misdiagnosis of past abuse were well and truly driven by their own undealt with Human issues. Tony

[Diva]

I don't think they are necessarily 'do-gooders' or even dealing with human issues, I think they often don't just don't understand dogs. The average person on the street is going to think abuse if a dog consistently shys away from hands, brooms or whatever, they haven't heard of socialisation periods or seen the effect of lack of socialisation, nor do they understand that some dogs are naturally shy. Often they are reinforcing the behaviour without realising it, but in my experience when that is pointed out in language they can access you frequently see a big change in their approach.

It's an education thing, that's what pet dog trainers are for in my opinion, to help people who are trying to do the right thing but know no better. Just my opinion, lol.

Edited December 9, 2007 by Diva

[Griffo]

I have like many of us,run into all sorts in the Dog World.Some know a bit,some know alot and some are woeful.

I would like a Dollar for everytime I have met a do-gooder who claims their Dog was abused by somebody in the past.Sometimes of course this may be true, but many times the person making the statement has no clue whatsoever and it is a total misdiagnosis.

I was looking through a few sites and came across this which I think says it well.

Quote from Beth Bradley.

Too often, people equate setting boundaries and being the pack leader with compulsion or being tough on their dogs. I see it more often with rescue dogs and their owners. Owners who rescue their dogs obsess about what a sad life their dog had and what must have happened to in the past. In turn, they allow the dog to get away with anything without any correction or minimal correction. These owners are “protecting” their dogs from the past. The problem is that they are transmitting fear and weakness. No dog wants to follow a weak leader; therefore, these dogs (a) begin to feel comfortable in their new environment and (b) begin to take over the role as pack leader thereby showing behavioral problems that did not rear their head before.

Tony

Tony, that's a great post!!

The funny thing is, i see this happening with non rescue dogs too... Some owners seem to obsess over their dog looking lonely or sad or left out ... putting all these human emotions onto them which usually turn around to bite them in the bum.

[persephone]

don't think they are necessarily 'do-gooders' or even dealing with human issues, I think they often don't just don't understand dogs. The average person on the street is going to think abuse if a dog consistently shys away from hands, brooms or whatever, they haven't heard of socialisation periods or seen the effect of lack of socialisation, nor do they understand that some dogs are naturally shy.

[Tonymc]

Dva inrelation to the point you raise.Yes a Problem can have many causes or factors.A Problem can be multifaceted.

Yes some just do not know that is true.

But some are certainly driven by undealt with Human issues.I will give an example.A Woman I met suffered abandonment both both Parents. Humans have the inborn need to be loved and accepted.In this Woman this need was never satisfied or filled.So she goes through life with a desperation to be loved and accepted.Because of the fear of being Abandoned again,she kept Humans at a distance and turned to what her Sub-concious figured was a safer alternative to satisfy this need.The safer alternative to her was Dogs.

So this Woman driven by this unsatisfied need got involved in rescuing dogs.She would create Storys about how badly the Dogs she rescued, had been abused in the past.Were the storys of the Dog"s abuse true?No!!Not at all.It was all about her issues.Why did she create the Storys?She did so to make herself feel more needed!!!In her mind, the worst past the Dog had the more the Dog needed her and the more accepted she felt. Tony

[jesomil]

I totally agree with what you are saying Tony. It is a something I hear way too often from people. Their dogs get away with murder all because they think they may have been abused in the past.

Most dogs don't thank you for being a weak leader and weak leadership can actually elevate a dogs stress levels and fears if the dog is not a natural leader.

Totally agree also. Lack of leadership can make a dog nervous and stressed even though the owners think they are doing the right thing.

[Diva]

In regard to your last post TonyMc, yes some people do expect their dogs to fulfill their needs in ways not appropriate or fair on the dogs, and you end up wih confused or highly stressed dogs as a result. Totally agree.

That's not confined to rescue dogs though, or even the imagined abuse scenario. While most 'average' rescue dogs owners may have turned to rescue because they preferred to help a dog in need, they aren't necessarily more or less prone to this problem than the average owner, the abuse reasoning is just closer to hand when their understanding and experience doesn't stretch to cover what they are seeing. Pure breed owners may be more prone to blame 'bad breeding' for example, often just as falsely.

There are lots of messed up people needing help with more than their dogs around, but even more well meaning people just in need of a bit better understanding of the species they have taken into their home. I think we have lost a lot of that experiential learning about animals through the generations but most people I have come across are open to it. Maybe I am just an optimist, but I have seen lots of people move from making excuses for their dogs behaviour to learning to modify it, with half-decent, objective and sensitive advice.

Edited to add that I don't disagree with with your basic premise abut setting boundaries at all, however the do-gooder label is unhelpful. Most people benefit from information, presented so as to make sense to them, not snide labels.

Edited December 10, 2007 by Diva

[Tonymc]

Diva,the Do-gooder bit was not meant to be snide.I tell it as it is.There are do-gooders out there for sure.There are do-gooders on this site,thats life.

Yes education is the way to go, but we cannot educate eveybody. Tony

[Just Midol]

Hmmm.

Perhaps the majority of these dogs have been abused though?

It seems to me that quote from Beth Bradley is more about people letting their dogs get away with things because they have (or have not) been abused. I suspect this dog I am fostering was abused (wary of females, cowers if my belt is not on, runs and hides or cowers in the corner if I have any kind of rope - if I have misdiagnosed then feel free to let me know what it could be) but I certainly won't let it get away with poor behaviour. The thing is until I see a behaviourist I am NOT going to try and fix the things I outlined above. Without professional input I could make things worse, if that makes me a do-gooder then I am happy to be one

[Tonymc]

Midol,big difference between a do-gooder and what your doing.Most do-gooders run on very little knowledge and very little awareness.

You have realised there may be a problem and are getting expert help to evaluate and treat. Tony

[Diva]

Diva,the Do-gooder bit was not meant to be snide.I tell it as it is.There are do-gooders out there for sure.There are do-gooders on this site,thats life.

Maybe they are do-gooders, or maybe it's just to easy to leap to judgement and whack on a label.

[RL1]

Midol,big difference between a do-gooder and what your doing.Most do-gooders run on very little knowledge and very little awareness.

You have realised there may be a problem and are getting expert help to evaluate and treat. Tony

Sometime's knowing there is a problem is as clear as mud, but getting that expert help can be the hardest part.

[Aphra]

Some of the best advice I was ever given about horses was that you had to work with the horse you had in front of you; not what you thought the past of the horse might have been like, or what you thought the horse should be like. Sometimes people bring too much imagination to the animal they're working with and end up trying to live with, or train, some imaginary beast ("oh my dog would never"; "my is pretending to be lame"; "my dog knows I want him to"; insert whatever other story you like), rather than the creature right there with whatever qualities it has.

We're human, so we're by nature prone to developing narratives about things, including animals. And as humans, it's difficult for us to grasp that dogs are not humans, they are not just like us.

I think the best trainers, and the people you meet who seem to have a natural affinity with animals are those who seem able to look at the animal and see its true nature without the layers of assumption and mythology and wishful thinking which afflict the rest of us. It's about being able to pay attention and draw conclusions based on the nature of dog or horse in the context of that animal, not in the context of some story about the animal we've built up ("my horse doesn't like to" as opposed to "my horse is in pain and physically can't").

As an example, so many people talk about their horses being naughty, or deliberately doing this that or the other to annoy the rider, when the reality is that horses have the brain power of a slightly educated raisin, they understand balance and fear and speed and food and pain, and that's about it.

Of course, with horses and with dogs, it's easier to blame the animal than to recognise that the human is more likely at fault.

I suppose the other part of this is that if an animal has been abused then the thing they need more than anything is clear, consistent leadership. If the rules are always the rules and the person making the rules provides kind, fair but obvious boundaries, then an animal made anxious by past harm has a place to relax and relearn trust in a framework of safety.

In one of her books Vicki Hearne talks about retraining a horse which came to her as a last resort. The horse's owners believed the horse was mad and quite untrainable, but Hearne, upon working with the horse, discovered a very sensitive horse who desperately craved consistency in leadership. More than most horses, this one was unable to tolerate ambiguity, and in the abscence of clarity became unmanageable.

Once the horse was in a place where there was clear and consistent leadership, her anxiety decreased and she became able to learn.

If an animal is afraid that a human might hurt it, then the way back is showing it that a human can be trusted, and for animals I firmly believe that trust and affection can only come after you have respect.

This doesn't mean that some animals haven't been abused and might need special skills or professional help to reclaim their confidence; more that I think for those animals good leadership is even more important than for your average dog who is happy to tolerate a bit of fuzziness.

[Tonymc]

Aphra,very very good post!!!! Tony