westielover Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 (edited) Love your post Warley and really liking you as a responsible breeder, only to become a great breeder with a terrific attitude like that Edited December 11, 2007 by westielover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldiesRgr8Poodles2 Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 ok... So ive read Dr Jean Dodds article from Cavandra's website... maybe I will go the the goldies show and listen to her becaue I have a few questions that to me dont add up. Just saying they have a full immune respose after their 12 months vac c doesnt make it so and to suggest a titer test to me = more money for the vets anyway. And also that her claim that a dog has its full immune system and thats as good as it gets then why titer test? That suggests that booster are need because they dont have a permeneant immune imprint and strength. That it does fade. Maybe some will fade fasterthen others (12month vaccs) maybe some later (3year) but this person has contradicted themselves a bit. I would love to ask them a couple of questions when they come to Adelaide. Im all for new treatments and ones better for our pets but im extremely cautious of holistic vets. (Have had 3 different occations where a holistic has been extremely detrimental to one of my clients. Gave a dog with serious skin sensitivity and allergy ie washed with malaseb only. Human shampoo saying if its good enough for people its good enough for pets that will fix his skin. he lost 40% of his hair on his body within a week and his skin took nearly 3 months to recover from all the raw bleeding cracks from the shampoo.) Like regular vets they have their companies that fund them and put their interests out so we as everday people have to make our own descisions and do our research which I will be now to get both sides. Their are arguments from both sides as well as personal experiences. I will not make conclusions about the benefit of either vaccination table until I feel i have adequate information to back up either side. Thankyou for the link on your website Cavandra..I will be reading more oh and as a side note... Your cavvies are simply gorgeous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westielover Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 GoldiesRgreat, no doubt it's a big paradigm shift. It's a big decision and there are lot's of pros and cons to take into consideration. However, if it's any consolation, my westies have had titre tests for the past 2 years and so far have not needed a vaccination booster. For peace of mind, I would rather pay for titre tests until there is solid proof that vaccinations last for more than 12 months/ a few years. So far, with my westies, it seems that vaccinations do in fact last more than 12 months .... in fact 2 years so far. My Brittany cross boy is due for his vaccinations. I got him from the pound a year ago - he was estimated to me about 12 months old. He was vaccinated at the pound. I have no idea what his vaccination history is prior to that. He will undergo a titre test this time ...... the results should be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollipop Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Last year one of my girls nearly lost the sight in both eyes due to uveitis (treatment was difficult because she had just been mated.) This happened about 6 weeks after her annual vaccinations (C5 and heartworm). Do you think that the eye trouble could have been caused by either injection? The vet has always done both together, annually. This year she didn't have the C5 as he thought that it was more likely to have caused the problem than the proheart. Now I'm really worried and don't know what to do in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westielover Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 It's possible Millipop. Causes of Canine Anterior Uveitis include: - Unknown-Idiopathic - Trauma (accidental and surgical) - Viral: Hepatitis, Distemper - Bacterial: Corneal wounds, Bacterial sepsis (e.g. pyometra, dental disease), Leptospirosis, Borreliosis, Brucellosis, Tuberculosis - Protozoal: Leishmaniasis, Neosporosis, Toxoplasmosis - Parasitic: Dirofilariasis, Angiostrongyliasis, Toxocariasis - Rickettsial: RMSF, Ehrlichiosis - Fungal/Algal: Blastomycosis, Histoplasmosis, Coccidioidomycosis, Cryptococcosis, Protothecosis - Immune mediated: Lens induced uveitis, uveodermatologic syndrome - Metabolic: Hyperlipidemia, Diabetes Mellitus - Genetic: Uveitis in Golden Retrievers associated with iridociliary cysts - Neoplasia The viral cause is interesting as small amounts hepatitis and distemper would be in the C5 injection. That could be the link between the vaccination and your dog getting uveitis. If you aren't sure what to do - I would suggest at the very least stop the annual heartworm injection and replace with monthly chewable tablets instead. If you don't board your dog - drop from C5 to C3. As an alternative to annual vaccinations - perhaps start titre testing instead. As long as there is an immune response to the titre test - it means there is no need to vaccinate at that time. My suggestion would be to do some research about annual vaccinations, titre tests, Dr Jean Dodds DVM, check out Cavandra's web site on one of the links above etc. There are also books available on these topics. At the end of the day - you won't find the direct answers which will tell you what you should do but at least it will enable you to make an informed choice when it comes to the well being of your animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavandra Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Last year one of my girls nearly lost the sight in both eyes due to uveitis (treatment was difficult because she had just been mated.)This happened about 6 weeks after her annual vaccinations (C5 and heartworm). Do you think that the eye trouble could have been caused by either injection? The vet has always done both together, annually. This year she didn't have the C5 as he thought that it was more likely to have caused the problem than the proheart. Now I'm really worried and don't know what to do in the future. It is hard to say, and was it a correct diagnosis???? Uveyitis can be related to auto immune problems, and Over vaccination causes auto immune problems, so it is possibble but would expect to have other symptoms with it..........I have to wonder if it wasnt just photophobia, if so I would say it is definately caused by Vaccination, as they often cause encephalitis (inflamation of the brain) symptoms range from very mild to severe, photophobia (sensitivity to light, causing pain & soreness) is a symptom of encephalitis..........anyway it is all guess work, but if it happened again under the same regime that is proof enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollipop Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Thanks for the thoughts. I am happy that the diagnosis was correct - we saw one of the top Opthamologists in Sydney ( and spent a fortune). Westielover: she had numerous blood tests for many of the diseases that you mentioned and ultrasounds for cancer, etc. but all were negative. I agree about returning to the monthy heartworm tablets and maybe just vaccinating every 2 years. It was the worst time of my life and we lost puppies so I don't ever want to go through it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollipop Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 I forgot to add that we are planning on going to the Goldie Nats. next year so will definately go to the talk by Jean Dodds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarasMum Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 What is an approximate cost of a titre test? Just interested as to how it stacks up against the cost of vaccinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kim21 Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Im very interested to read this forum coz I was planning on giving my pup the heartworm shot when he was old enough... Now I think I may give that a miss!! I would also like to know what others have paid for a titre test as i have never heard of them before now but they sound like a good idea instead of annual shots.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helen Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 (edited) I know someone who does do titre tests and finds they do have to re-vaccinate their dog every few years (normally every 3 years for them) so that is enough evidence to me to say that the vaccination does not last a life time. I vaccinate regularly (although I do stretch the 12 month out). I can imagine as less people vaccinate the things we vaccinate against will rear their ugly head more often which makes me more inclined to vaccinate regularly, particularly for me as my dogs are in contact with a lot of dogs, showing, agility, dog beach etc. After talking in length about the matter with a vet it seems the biggest problems occur where there is already a health problem that has not been picked up yet. When the dog is vaccinated the dog's immune system is concentrating on the new problem (vaccination) taking away from protecting against the already existing problem. I prefer monthly heartworm tablets though, at least you have a choice here. My vets have also stated they will not vaccinate a dog if they do not consider it healthy enough to tolerate the vaccination. Edited December 12, 2007 by helen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peigirl Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Titre tests ~ $80 for distemper and parvo. $120 for distemper, parvo and hepatitis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leema Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Can anyone give me more information about Dr Jean Dodds coming to SA? I would be interested in attending seminars or whatever else by her.. But can't find anything through google. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chloebear Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 My vets don't like the annual heartworm needle and I don't need any more evidence than that. I would never use it.I am surprised that your vet would give both a vaccination and a heartworm injection all at once. Seems like such a lot for your dog to process all at once. My dog got her vaccinations and heartworm needle at the same time. But with my new puppy, I couldn't get her desexed and vaccinated at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chloebear Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 I prefer monthly heartworm tablets though, at least you have a choice here.My vets have also stated they will not vaccinate a dog if they do not consider it healthy enough to tolerate the vaccination. With my puppy, I was advised to use Intercept instead of Heartworm needle. Children are the same, if unwell or running fever they shouldn't be vaccinated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavandra Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Can anyone give me more information about Dr Jean Dodds coming to SA? I would be interested in attending seminars or whatever else by her.. But can't find anything through google. The seminar will be between the 19th & 22nd of June, I dont know the venue etc, you can contact someone from the Goldie Club or wait until details are posted to the forum later. GRC site Dr Dodds will also be visiting Sydney & QLD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leema Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Thank-you very much, Cavandra! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 I wasn't really concentrating at the time, but the guy this morning said next time she has it (the injection) we will give her the antidote as well. Please research vaccinations, and consider not giving her any more annual vaccinations. They are NOT necessary, and destroy the immune system - as you have seen. And, don't feel bad, it is not your fault, it is the fault of that numpty vet, who obviously can't read, or doesn't care. There's enough evidence available to vets to show them giving a C5 and hearworm injection is a fatal idea, yet they persist in doing it. Owners shouldn't be expected to know. Chloebear, your dog was performing because the injections made her feel soooo bad, she isn't going back there to have another one. Respect her wishes. And there is NO reason to vaccinate with C7. The extra 2 LIVE vaccines are for corona, which is a puppy disease, never seen in adult dogs, and rarely fatal anyhow, and lepto, which is NOT found south of Mackay. It thrives in hot wet tropical conditions. And the incidence of lepto in dogs is so minute it barely rates a mention. I think your dog has more chance of being crashed into by a Fokker Friendship in your backyard than getting lepto. And Cavandra - you can report all you like, they don't put the numbers on the website. I personally know of ELEVEN dogs with severe (try, death) reactions to vaccines in one year, but the website showed 3. If I knew of 11, and only 3 showed, how many others did they get which weren't shown? Big fat fibbers. For anyone who wants to know more, google Dr Jean Dodds, Catherine O'Driscoll or Dr Bob Rogers + canine + vaccinations, and you'll have enough reading matter for weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 (edited) GoldiesRgreat I wasn't really concentrating at the time, but the guy this morning said next time she has it (the injection) we will give her the antidote as well. Dr Dodds isn't a holistic vet. She has been researching vaccines and their effects ever since the multi vaccines replaced the measles temp shot, followed by distemper (and rabies in US). this amounts to over 20 years research, in a clinical environment, and she is not the only one. It's difficult to grasp when the vet. profession has been drilling us for years about annual vaccinations, but if you do enough research and reading you do understand it. Very few dogs suffered from the auto immune diseases pre parvo injections as they do now - which is what set me on a learning curve 15 years ago. Remember too that dogs pick up immunity by having contact with these diseases in the environment, and their immunity strengthens as time goes on. Edited December 13, 2007 by Jed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arby Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Our vet tried to say that the proheart injection is perfectly fine but sometimes dogs react when given the C5 at same time. I politely told him that we do not want the yearly proheart injections because we have been warned by other boxer owners and breeders that some boxers can react very badly. He said it was the first time he'd heard about it. I told him that although Humphrey had no reaction the first time we got it this time around we're not risking it. Especially since we're perfectly happy giving him the monthly chewables instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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