Just Midol Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 (edited) I am having trouble understanding this. Is the DHA and the EPA the main things in fish oil that we want? Fish oil only has Omega 3 doesn't it, I've read we want some Omega 6 as well? What does DHA do and what does EPA do? Everything I find refers to what it does to the human body, is this the same for dogs? All I can find is it makes the coat shiny, which one makes the coat pretty? EPA or DHA? How much (in mg) of each is an ideal quantity to add to BARF? Will it evaporate or anything like that? How do I determine if a dog needs it? Can you administer too much? I create my own balls of 220g so would one capsule be sufficient per "ball" of BARF? The omega 3 mix from nz health store contains 25% DHA and 15% EPA, each is 1000mg so 250mg of DHA and 150mg of EPA. 300 of those capsules for $112 NZ (so around $100 AUS?) It comes from Hoki but I need to find out if Hoki is sustainable. The green lip mussel mix from the same store has 18%/12% (from memory, and DHA/EPA respectively) but each capsule is only 500mg so only contains 90mg of DHA and 60mg of EPA, 450 capsules for $135 (on sale now). Green Lipped is 100% sustainable so I know I am causing little environmental damage to the marine environment with this option. So how much is really required? From memory Peibe mentioned 180/120 as the standard measure but is that how much we should aim to supplement? My foster dogs coat is a bit dull, I know either EPA or DHA will help this but I want to know how much is needed and which one is needed. Edited December 6, 2007 by Lord Midol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsforall Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 (edited) don't know if this will help you but i use hygain RBO oil it has omega 3,6,and 9 i give the dogs 5mls on there dinner dfa eta 5lt cost me $38 and i also give it to my cat and horses Edited December 6, 2007 by dogsforall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peigirl Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 I am having trouble understanding this.Is the DHA and the EPA the main things in fish oil that we want? Fish oil only has Omega 3 doesn't it, I've read we want some Omega 6 as well? Yes, yes and yes. What does DHA do and what does EPA do? Everything I find refers to what it does to the human body, is this the same for dogs? All I can find is it makes the coat shiny, which one makes the coat pretty? EPA or DHA? Pretty much same application for humans and dogs. DHA used more for brain function, mood disorders etc. EPA known for heart health and anti-inflammation in joints etc. Neither of these are used for coat - you want GLA (gamma linolenic acid) which is found in evening primrose oil or borage oil (borage oil is far more potent that epo). GLA is part of the Omega 6 family. How much (in mg) of each is an ideal quantity to add to BARF? Will it evaporate or anything like that? How do I determine if a dog needs it? Can you administer too much? I create my own balls of 220g so would one capsule be sufficient per "ball" of BARF? Don't add to BARF when you make, add it when you feed it. Oils will oxidise, go rancid, taste horrid and be of no benefit. I think the normal ratio to work off is 1 capsule per 20kg of body weight. Too much oil and the dog will probably end up with the runs, thats about it. The omega 3 mix from nz health store contains 25% DHA and 15% EPA, each is 1000mg so 250mg of DHA and 150mg of EPA. 300 of those capsules for $112 NZ (so around $100 AUS?) It comes from Hoki but I need to find out if Hoki is sustainable.The green lip mussel mix from the same store has 18%/12% (from memory, and DHA/EPA respectively) but each capsule is only 500mg so only contains 90mg of DHA and 60mg of EPA, 450 capsules for $135 (on sale now). Green Lipped is 100% sustainable so I know I am causing little environmental damage to the marine environment with this option. So how much is really required? From memory Peibe mentioned 180/120 as the standard measure but is that how much we should aim to supplement? My foster dogs coat is a bit dull, I know either EPA or DHA will help this but I want to know how much is needed and which one is needed. I think it was me Midol, I am always banging on about fatty acids EPA/DHA won't do anything for the coat shine but its a good supplement to add for overall health if youre not treating joint problems. Use a GLA supplement for coat. Up to you really but dermatologists recommend the standard 180/120 fish oil + evening primrose when treating dogs with skin problems, allergies and/or elimination diets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peigirl Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 don't know if this will help you but i use hygain RBO oil it has omega 3,6,and 9i give the dogs 5mls on there dinner dfa eta 5lt cost me $38 and i also give it to my cat and horses Generally these 3-6-9 supplements have only plant based Omegas: 3= flax, 6= evening primrose oil, 9= filler stuff/nothing of benefit. Flax oil is great for heart health. Body also metabolises a small % to EPA/DHA. Widely disputed what this % is in humans, no idea for animals. EPO is great for coat condition/skin. Omega 9 requires no supplementation whatsoever - the body metabolises these from others 'fats' consumed in the diet. There is no EPA/DHA in these mixes. Just buy a EPO supplement and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malsam Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 so that means only omega 6 and Flax can help in coat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavandra Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Omega 6 is in Chicken I also use Evening Primrose Oil & Fish oil for one i have with an allergy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Ok let me see if I understand this - 1000mg tablets of fish oil to 400mg of EPO??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted December 6, 2007 Author Share Posted December 6, 2007 Yay! I am starting to understand. First Time Puppy Owner, it depends, different supps have different percentages of DHA and EPA, for example, the omega 3 supp from nz health from Hoki contains 250/150 in a 1000mg capsule and the recommended dose appears to be 180/120 so that's a bit more than recommended, where as the mussel ones if you use 2 capsules you get 180/120 which is the recommended dose. Given that using sustainable materials for me is a strong factor then I am more likely to go with the more expensive Green Lipped Mussels (well, I have yet to shop around for cheaper pricing.) You need to look at what percentage of the capsule/supplement is actually DHA or EPA. Now I need to find a good GLA supplement. So no adding oils to barf, I'll just leave them on the counter then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Ok let's go backward a step - that 180/120 is only the ratio in the actual fish oil tablets - is that correct? So if you are giving a fish oil tablet that is 180/120 of the DHA and EPA then how much EPO do you give for the right amount of GLA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsforall Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 now i'm totally lost what do i need to change to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Ok I have got it now, 1 tablet or fish oil and 1 tablet of evening primrose oil - both 1000mg! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peigirl Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Sources of GLA: - evening primrose oil - black currant oil - borage oil Up to you what you choose to use - dog dermatologists suggest EPO. Borage oil has twice the potency of EPO so if youre giving two caps of EPO a day, economise and use one of borage instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Borage Oil - can you get it at the supermarket or only chemist and health food stores??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peigirl Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Hmmmm, I'm not sure about the supermarket? Definitely chemist/health food/online pharmacy. Online pharmacies often have great deals on vitamins, supplements etc, especially if you grab a few containers at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Thank you Peigirl - you are a tremendous wealth of knowledge!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malsam Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 hmm...so that means for coat and skin care, GLA is the 1? Not EPA and DHA as what vets suggested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share Posted December 7, 2007 Affirmative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malsam Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 hmm...then why every books says fish oil is the 1? I faintly remember Dr B's book mention there are other vitamins that can help in coat and skin also. Anyone can recall the details? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 (edited) I feed a blend of oils called "Mega Oil" - you can buy it from the fridge section of some health food shops. It is a blend of Flaxseed, Soy, Evening Primrose, Borage, Safflower, Sunflower, Sesame and Pumpkin Seed Oils. All organic, all cold pressed. Not cheap, but I'm happy with it. Edited December 9, 2007 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malsam Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 I think that make sense also. A book I read recently also suggest to blend a mixture of oil for the best source for absorption. Since I'm providing variety of meat and vegi for my dogs, how come never think of using a variety of oil as well? I think Udo brand also have 1 of these...but they are for humans right? I dunno about the right ratio for dogs though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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