The Dangers Of Giving Advice On Forums

[Griffo]

Hence a general advice about breed of choice has its place IMHO.

i still disagree with that tho. Jumping to conclusions over a forum because you have experience with the same breed is not a clever thing to do, ever.

if we were to take that view further that would mean that its not a good idea to buy a book on dog training, or a DVD.

And the general advice that is often provided on the forums is non breed non temperament specific most of the time.

Prime example is my thread about teaching my dog to pull on lead, where ever helpfull PF has given me a one sentence advice.

You can do what you like with it, but what we are talking about is giving advice on forums, we are not talking about tv, dvds etc. I also have views on those, but they are off topic.

People need to be very careful wen giving advice on forums. Problems can be made worse, or sometimes we get lucky and they get better. I dont think it is a good enough gamble.

BTW i am guilty of giving advice, dont get me wrong, but do i think it is all together a brilliant idea? no i dont, in recent times, i always try to cover my bum when i do give advice.

The only thing that i think breed specific advice is useful for is; grooming, feeding and breeding. Other than that all training and behaviour problems can apply to any breed - unless it is something to do with a dog's physical structure effecting training etc. (incase anyone feels the need to split hairs over this...)

[BJean]

The only thing that i think breed specific advice is useful for is; grooming, feeding and breeding. Other than that all training and behaviour problems can apply to any breed - unless it is something to do with a dog's physical structure effecting training etc. (incase anyone feels the need to split hairs over this...)

Yes training and behavioural problems can apply to any breed

but some 'problem' behaviours can be quite normal in some breeds -

and although an issue of training to manage, often environment and handler is important.

If a trainer does not know what is 'normal' for a breed they may be essentially pushing s*** uphill, when it comes to trying to modify the dog's behaviour

and also may not see the mismatch of handler/environment (if it exists).

SO

I think breed specific advice is useful, because quite frankly - if you haven't been exposed to it, you don't know.

And just as breed specific physical structure can affect training, so can mental structure (if that is even a term :rolleyes:).

All training and behavioural problems can apply to any breed, but breed is important because it can indicate what is normal or abnormal behaviour. And though a professional behaviouralist/trainer (with no breed knowledge of the dog) is able to pinpoint what is the problem between a handler and dog - someone familiar with the breed is generally able to ascertain the why, and provide management options for the behaviour.

Edited December 6, 2007 by lilli

[Rusky]

The only thing that i think breed specific advice is useful for is; grooming, feeding and breeding. Other than that all training and behaviour problems can apply to any breed -

yes they can apply to any breed but because man has selectively bred traits which are desirable for certain conditions, work or lifestyle those dogs carry inherited traits which may and often can be breed specific. When these traits are not met by the owner then they can develop into breed specific problems such as chase, nipping, digging, pulling, following a scent, etc etc.

All dogs need the same leadership, food, shelter and hopefully love, grooming,fun and vet care but how we take care of these basic requirements and how we address the breed specific traits are very important. If someone for instance has a Jack which chases rabbits and runs down holes then people with breed specific solutions would be well worth listening to for alternative rewards to the dogs basic instinct.

[Griffo]

The only thing that i think breed specific advice is useful for is; grooming, feeding and breeding. Other than that all training and behaviour problems can apply to any breed -

yes they can apply to any breed but because man has selectively bred traits which are desirable for certain conditions, work or lifestyle those dogs carry inherited traits which may and often can be breed specific. When these traits are not met by the owner then they can develop into breed specific problems such as chase, nipping, digging, pulling, following a scent, etc etc.

All of the symptoms you have mentioned occur from a dog's drives. Nowhere have i said that traits are not more prevalent in some breeds, of course some traits have a higher occurrence depending on breed.

However, the same modification/training programs apply regardless of breed, they are, however, dependent on the dog's temperament and drives.

I can not see an instance where a training/behaviour program should implemented because of the dog's breed rather than their temperament/drives. You dont look at a JackR and immediately say that the root of it's problems is high prey drive. You can maybe take that into consideration when assessing, even then, if you know what your doing then you wont need to because you will see it with your own two eyes.

I am surprised that some people are are happy to admit that training certain BREEDS out of or into behaviours is like "pushing s*** uphill"...rather than realising that you can use the drives causing the behaviours to your advantage...

And just as breed specific physical structure can affect training, so can mental structure

Which is a dog's drives, not their breed. A prey high drive dog can appear regardless of breed. A low drive dog can appear regardless of breed. It would be silly to give a prey drive program to someone with a BC just because it is a BC... when their particular dog might have absolutely no prey drive or high rank drive which needs to be dealt with first.

And though a professional behaviouralist/trainer (with no breed knowledge of the dog) is able to pinpoint what is the problem between a handler and dog - someone familiar with the breed is generally able to ascertain the why, and provide management options for the behaviour.

Okay this is where i am having a problem, this part is a bit dangerous IMO...just because i own a GSD it does not make me a GSD trainer/behaviorist.

The problem with that mindset (to me) is if someone comes to me abuout their GSD, I will have a clouded view because of my preconceived ideas about what a GSD should/should not be. Hence my advice coulld also be clouded.

Lets take the behaviour of nipping on ankles with a BC - a common problem for this breed....

Someone who has had a high prey drive BC would be leaning towards it being a "herding" instinct/ prey drive.

While someone who has had a high rank drive BC would be leaning towards it being a "correction" from the dog

It could be either one of the above or neither. If it is a rank problem and the person starts prey work with the dog then there could be big problems.

[MonElite]

The only thing that i think breed specific advice is useful for is; grooming, feeding and breeding. Other than that all training and behaviour problems can apply to any breed -

Can you expand on the breed specific advice on lets say feeding?

I understood that you said that no advice should be given over the net about any training, this is how the discussion was taken on board by PF.

PF than said that there is certain advice that can be given regardless of breed.

How did we change this to say that training advice is breed specific?

Correct me if Im wrong but werent you surpised that someone here wanted to train their English Pointer for PP? How does this relate to your views about temperament v's breed?

Lets take the behaviour of nipping on ankles with a BC - a common problem for this breed....

Someone who has had a high prey drive BC would be leaning towards it being a "herding" instinct/ prey drive.

While someone who has had a high rank drive BC would be leaning towards it being a "correction" from the dog

It could be either one of the above or neither. If it is a rank problem and the person starts prey work with the dog then there could be big problems.

You are still talking about behavioural issues, PF has pointed this out to you before. several people here belive that you can give general advice to anyone about with any breed of a dog on how to teach the dog to sit using a lure, how to crate train the dog or how to house train a puppy.

Are you of a different opinon?

but what we are talking about is giving advice on forums,

whats your opinion about training books?

[BJean]

I am surprised that some people are are happy to admit that training certain BREEDS out of or into behaviours is like "pushing s*** uphill"...rather than realising that you can use the drives causing the behaviours to your advantage...

That's because you are not familar with certain lines of Anatolian and Central Asian.

There are some common 'unwanted behaviours' that are not going to be untrained out of them.

Problems arise because people think they can.

And just as breed specific physical structure can affect training, so can mental structure

Which is a dog's drives, not their breed. A prey high drive dog can appear regardless of breed. A low drive dog can appear regardless of breed.

It would be silly to give a prey drive program to someone with a BC just because it is a BC... when their particular dog might have absolutely no prey drive or high rank drive which needs to be dealt with first.

Whatever terminology you want to use: mindset, outlook, psyche, drives - this is breed related.

Breed advice does not equate to dispensing a 'drive program' based on breed alone,

but it does mean knowing what drives are at play, and probable reasoning/outcomes of the situation.

And though a professional behaviouralist/trainer (with no breed knowledge of the dog) is able to pinpoint what is the problem between a handler and dog - someone familiar with the breed is generally able to ascertain the why, and provide management options for the behaviour.

Okay this is where i am having a problem, this part is a bit dangerous IMO...just because i own a GSD it does not make me a GSD trainer/behaviorist.

The problem with that mindset (to me) is if someone comes to me abuout their GSD, I will have a clouded view because of my preconceived ideas about what a GSD should/should not be. Hence my advice coulld also be clouded.

I'd imagine that someone offering breed advice

would have owned more than one of their said breed, and have a pretty good grasp of the breed population in Australia, temperaments of contributing dogs, and experience handling them at and from different ages.

What you see as a "clouded view"

I regard as an OVERVIEW.

Lets take the behaviour of nipping on ankles with a BC - a common problem for this breed....

Someone who has had a high prey drive BC would be leaning towards it being a "herding" instinct/ prey drive.

While someone who has had a high rank drive BC would be leaning towards it being a "correction" from the dog

It could be either one of the above or neither. If it is a rank problem and the person starts prey work with the dog then there could be big problems.

Yep and if someone had experience in a spectrum of causes for the above described behaviour, they'd be aware of the contributing possibilites and the myriad of ways each drive related owner/dog issue could manifest.

Someone offering breed adivce on BCs would be well aware that either scenario could be a possibilty, so no big problems.

Edited December 6, 2007 by lilli

[MonElite]

A prey high drive dog can appear regardless of breed

You would have real problems finding a high prey drive dog amongst CAO's.

Some would show a bit more than others, but I am yet to see or hear aobut one that has a high prey drive.

[Griffo]

The only thing that i think breed specific advice is useful for is; grooming, feeding and breeding. Other than that all training and behaviour problems can apply to any breed -

Can you expand on the breed specific advice on lets say feeding?

For example how to feed to avoid breed specific health problems like bloat.

I understood that you said that no advice should be given over the net about any training, this is how the discussion was taken on board by PF.

PF than said that there is certain advice that can be given regardless of breed.

How did we change this to say that training advice is breed specific?

Thread evolved... :rolleyes:

Correct me if Im wrong but werent you surpised that someone here wanted to train their English Pointer for PP? How does this relate to your views about temperament v's breed?

Okay i am about to correct you because you're wrong, i was concerned because the fellow was winging PP. I dont believe any of my comments pointed towards the breed. Except that they might end up on the BSL list after he'd finished with them. How about we stay on topic hey?

Lets take the behaviour of nipping on ankles with a BC - a common problem for this breed....

Someone who has had a high prey drive BC would be leaning towards it being a "herding" instinct/ prey drive.

While someone who has had a high rank drive BC would be leaning towards it being a "correction" from the dog

It could be either one of the above or neither. If it is a rank problem and the person starts prey work with the dog then there could be big problems.

You are still talking about behavioural issues, PF has pointed this out to you before. several people here belive that you can give general advice to anyone about with any breed of a dog on how to teach the dog to sit using a lure, how to crate train the dog or how to house train a puppy.

Are you of a different opinon?

No I am saying that a dog's drives, training & behaviour go hand in hand, regardless of what I am commenting on, threads tend to evolve. So lets not waste our time on silly details like who has pointed out what. You'd be silly to take training as a unity when the dog may have a series of other problems which may interfere.

When giving advice on a forum about training, behaviour, whatever, this needs to be considered.

several people here belive that you can give general advice to anyone about with any breed of a dog on how to teach the dog to sit using a lure, how to crate train the dog or how to house train a puppy.

Are you of a different opinon?

No, once again, what i am saying is that things like crate training are NOT breed specific, why would you need breed specific advice? Oh except for the size of the crate you might need.

Things like teaching a dog to sit are NOT breed specific, house training is NOT breed specific. What part of it do you believe is breed specific?

but what we are talking about is giving advice on forums

whats your opinion about training books?

Seeing as you are so insistent about staying on topic...ie TRAINING, my opinions of books is irrelevant. I am not interested in splitting hairs on yet another topic.

ETA:

I understood that you said that no advice should be given over the net about any training

Actually i believe what i said is it can be dangerous and people need to be careful giving and accepting the advice.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Rachelle

[Griffo]

Just for you Myszka, this is where the breed specific advice came into the thread..... :rolleyes:

Agreed it can be dangerous, although I will offer advise on some issues especially concerning my breed of choice

I don't understand why you'd be more likely to offer advice about your breed of choice, as temperament has squat to do with a dogs breed.

Of course you can offer advice on issues like grooming and feeding etc, but it is no safer offering behavioural advice for a breed you know vs one you dont. Temperament is not breed specific.

[MonElite]

For example how to feed to avoid breed specific health problems like bloat.

FYI bloat isnt breed specific...

No, once again, what i am saying is that things like crate training are NOT breed specific, why would you need breed specific advice? Oh except for the size of the crate you might need.

Things like teaching a dog to sit are NOT breed specific, house training is NOT breed specific. What part of it do you believe is breed specific?

I dont belive any part is breed specific! It wasnt me that evolved the thread into the breed specific training, I was trying to stay on topic, just like you asked

So you believe that this is the type of advice has a place on the forums? If yes than great, we agree

my opinions of books is irrelevant

Books are written information, just like advice on the forums.

Books are written by professionals and not so very professionals, just like advice on forums is.

but interesting comment on your part

[MonElite]

I dont believe any of my comments pointed towards the breed.

you are finding it quite simple to train your ( ) Pointer ( ) in PP,

I guess I took the use of this emoticon wrong when placed next to the breed of the dog.

My appolgies, and thank you for clarifying.

[Griffo]

I am surprised that some people are are happy to admit that training certain BREEDS out of or into behaviours is like "pushing s*** uphill"...rather than realising that you can use the drives causing the behaviours to your advantage...

That's because you are not familar with certain lines of Anatolian and Central Asian.

There are some common 'unwanted behaviours' that are not going to be untrained out of them.

Problems arise because people think they can.

A dog is a dog is a dog. All dogs have drives. All dogs want to be comfortable. The problem comes down to a handler/training issue, not a breed issue.

And just as breed specific physical structure can affect training, so can mental structure

Which is a dog's drives, not their breed. A prey high drive dog can appear regardless of breed. A low drive dog can appear regardless of breed.

It would be silly to give a prey drive program to someone with a BC just because it is a BC... when their particular dog might have absolutely no prey drive or high rank drive which needs to be dealt with first.

Whatever terminology you want to use: mindset, outlook, psyche, drives - this is breed related.

Breed advice does not equate to dispensing a 'drive program' based on breed alone,

but it does mean knowing what drives are at play, and probable reasoning/outcomes of the situation.

I disagree with you. You don't know the drives that are at play from a description on a forum just because you have had experience with that breed. You can err that it can more likely be this or that, but to make an accurate diagnosis you need to SEE the dog. The things you have to worry about is not the information you are given, but the information you haven't been given, key signs that the owner has missed because they are not trained to look for it. As i said, you could be right, but there is a chance you could be wrong, to me it is not a worthwhile chance to take. Doesnt mean you cant do it. I just think it is dangerous and it is a good idea to cover your bum when giving the advice.

And though a professional behaviouralist/trainer (with no breed knowledge of the dog) is able to pinpoint what is the problem between a handler and dog - someone familiar with the breed is generally able to ascertain the why, and provide management options for the behaviour.

Okay this is where i am having a problem, this part is a bit dangerous IMO...just because i own a GSD it does not make me a GSD trainer/behaviorist.

The problem with that mindset (to me) is if someone comes to me abuout their GSD, I will have a clouded view because of my preconceived ideas about what a GSD should/should not be. Hence my advice coulld also be clouded.

I'd imagine that someone offering breed advice

would have owned more than one of their said breed, and have a pretty good grasp of the breed population in Australia, temperaments of contributing dogs, and experience handling them at and from different ages.

What you see as a "clouded view"

I regard as an OVERVIEW.

I absolutely disagree with that. I know people who have owned several dogs of the same breed yet they now nothing about the breed population in Au, the temperaments of contributing dogs, and maybe they have raised them, but it doesnt mean they have done it in the best way.

I believe that an "overview" is not good enough information to work with.

Maybe YOU have this knowledge, but a regular person asking a question usually doesn't have this knowledge. I have owned several GSDs, i knew none of that information till very recently.

Lets take the behaviour of nipping on ankles with a BC - a common problem for this breed....

Someone who has had a high prey drive BC would be leaning towards it being a "herding" instinct/ prey drive.

While someone who has had a high rank drive BC would be leaning towards it being a "correction" from the dog

It could be either one of the above or neither. If it is a rank problem and the person starts prey work with the dog then there could be big problems.

Yep and if someone had experience in a spectrum of causes for the above described behaviour, they'd be aware of the contributing possibilites and the myriad of ways each drive related owner/dog issue could manifest.

Someone offering breed adivce on BCs would be well aware that either scenario could be a possibilty, so no big problems.

No, that is not true. I have read plenty of advice given in this forum... many times people jump to one conclusion because of their past experience. Not long ago, i would have done the same thing. And yes there ARE big problems in giving training advice over a forum to a person with a fear aggressive dog or a rank aggressive dog. Huge problems.

You can make the dog worse, you can put yourself and others in danger, or you might hit the jackpot and get it right.

Basic advice like "work on leadership, implement NILF, TOT " etc is pretty safe. Making a call on what you think the problem might be is fine too.

Actually going ahead and saying... i think the problem is Y and you need to do Z to fix it - that is dangerous.

[Griffo]

For example how to feed to avoid breed specific health problems like bloat.

FYI bloat isnt breed specific...

Well actually it is more prevalent in certain breeds, as you know, as are certain drives etc. considering you have dobes, i should think you'd know that.

No, once again, what i am saying is that things like crate training are NOT breed specific, why would you need breed specific advice? Oh except for the size of the crate you might need.

Things like teaching a dog to sit are NOT breed specific, house training is NOT breed specific. What part of it do you believe is breed specific?

I dont belive any part is breed specific! It wasnt me that evolved the thread into the breed specific training, I was trying to stay on topic, just like you asked

So you believe that this is the type of advice has a place on the forums? If yes than great, we agree

my opinions of books is irrelevant

Books are written information, just like advice on the forums.

Books are written by professionals and not so very professionals, just like advice on forums is.

but interesting comment on your part

I believe that teaching a dog to sit, carte training, house training is not breed specific, i believe that is what i said? The rest you can make assumptions about the rest till the cows come home.

IMO the only place for books is to become a more informed person, take what you want and leave what you want, we are talking about giving ADVICE on forums.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree...

[Griffo]

I dont believe any of my comments pointed towards the breed.

you are finding it quite simple to train your ( ) Pointer ( ) in PP,

I guess I took the use of this emoticon wrong when placed next to the breed of the dog.

My appolgies, and thank you for clarifying.

You can assume what you like. We both know that PP is a specialist field and has nothing to do with advice on behaviour & training problems in dogs on this forum. You really do like to split hairs dont you? And must have way too much time on your hands to go sifting thru all that...

[MonElite]

I believe that teaching a dog to sit, carte training, house training is not breed specific, i believe that is what i said? The rest you can make assumptions about the rest till the cows come home.

I will quote PF and will say that I totally agree with what she said

For the questions like "how can I get my puppy/dog to sit, walk on loose lead, not jump on me, come when called, or be toilet trained" I think there's value in explaining methods of training and helping with training issues.

Not everyone here has access to dog trainers and clubs and helping people have a dog they want to live with profits the dog IMO.

if you disagree than thats fine with me, not my place to convince you to change my mind.

[MonElite]

You really do like to split hairs dont you? And must have way too much time on your hands to go sifting thru all that...

personal dig after an appology?....... Nice

I fail to see how is it any of your business how much time I have spare and how I use it. And why would you have a need to point the amount of my spare time to me

And yes there ARE big problems in giving training advice over a forum to a person with a fear aggressive dog or a rank aggressive dog. Huge problems.

Basic advice like "work on leadership, implement NILF, TOT " etc is pretty safe. Making a call on what you think the problem might be is fine too.

Has anyone said otherwise?

[jaybeece]

I believe that teaching a dog to sit, carte training, house training is not breed specific, i believe that is what i said? The rest you can make assumptions about the rest till the cows come home.

It can be. Some dogs are notoriously difficult to house train, some make life very tough when you're trying to teach them to sit.

Some dogs will learn "sit" with a heap of praise, some need more motivation (ie. food, toy reward) and some just need a good ol' correction to really get the point through that sit means sit. Sometimes there's a behavioural reason why a dog won't obey, sometimes a medical. No-one is going to be able to accurately determine that over the internet though.

Also we all know there are generalisations about the temperament of every breed and although a lot of dogs vary, the basic temperaments are generally similar from breed to breed.

So I do think that even with a simple sit or heel that breed comes into it, behaviour certainly does. So where do you draw the line? Should people just stop giving any advice so the next person who asks how to get their dog to heel is immediately told to see a behaviouralist?

I don't see the harm in providing general advice and training tips. I also don't think that giving minor behavioural advice is a big problem as long as it's made clear that a behaviouralist would be the best person to seek out.

I've learnt an enormous amount about dog training and behaviour from forums and websites alone and if people were to stop posting this information for fear of leading others astray I think it would be a real shame as it's such a valuable way to learn about many different areas of dog behaviour and training.

Just look at Leerburg.com and flyingdogpress as examples...ooooodles of behaviour and training information there and I don't think it's harmful at all to have it around.

[MonElite]

jaybeece

So where do you draw the line? Should people just stop giving any advice so the next person who asks how to get their dog to heel is immediately told to see a behaviouralist?

I think we should ask Troy to close the training section, way to much advcie here

[BJean]

A dog is a dog is a dog. All dogs have drives. All dogs want to be comfortable. The problem comes down to a handler/training issue, not a breed issue.

Dog aggression is a breed issue.

Strong rank drive and dominance is a breed isssue.

handler/training issues need to be addressed in light of the breed of dog. If you don't understand the dog, your training recommendations are not going to be effective or (in some cases) relevant.

You are not going to untrain some dogs out of dog aggression, nor others out of a strong rank driven outlook where they exhibit aggression towards people.

Unless you know what behaviour a breed is likely to exhibit you will not know what is normal (or acceptable).

ie: which of the following is unusual behaviour and where should training/rehoming be attempted:

ASD male aggressive towards children of household

CAO male aggressive towards children of household?

female ASD highly dog aggressive

female CAO highly dog aggressive?

I disagree with you. You don't know the drives that are at play from a description on a forum just because you have had experience with that breed. You can err that it can more likely be this or that, but to make an accurate diagnosis you need to SEE the dog. The things you have to worry about is not the information you are given, but the information you haven't been given, key signs that the owner has missed because they are not trained to look for it. As i said, you could be right, but there is a chance you could be wrong, to me it is not a worthwhile chance to take. Doesnt mean you cant do it. I just think it is dangerous and it is a good idea to cover your bum when giving the advice.

Noone gives a total assessment over a forum, what is given, is general advice - a likelihood of what is probably wrong.

And believe it or not, ASD and CAOs can be rather predictable when it comes to typical 'problem behaviour' experienced by those seeking advice.

Further, most after receiving forum advice that points them in the right direction, then carry on with one-to-one advice.

Never was it mentioned that breed advice was dispensed in on-line format only.

I'd imagine that someone offering breed advice

would have owned more than one of their said breed, and have a pretty good grasp of the breed population in Australia, temperaments of contributing dogs, and experience handling them at and from different ages.What you see as a "clouded view"

I regard as an OVERVIEW.

I absolutely disagree with that. I know people who have owned several dogs of the same breed yet they now nothing about the breed population in Au, the temperaments of contributing dogs, and maybe they have raised them, but it doesnt mean they have done it in the best way.

I believe that an "overview" is not good enough information to work with.

Rachelle, the above was all inclusive.

ie: owned multiple dogs AND good grasp of breed population AND temperaments etc

Without some knowledge of the ASD and CAO breeds in Australia, anybody giving advice as to their training, in any format, does not have enough information to work with.

Maybe YOU have this knowledge, but a regular person asking a question usually doesn't have this knowledge. I have owned several GSDs, i knew none of that information till very recently.

Hence they ask the question

Yep and if someone had experience in a spectrum of causes for the above described behaviour, they'd be aware of the contributing possibilites and the myriad of ways each drive related owner/dog issue could manifest.

Someone offering breed adivce on BCs would be well aware that either scenario could be a possibilty, so no big problems.

No, that is not true. I have read plenty of advice given in this forum... many times people jump to one conclusion because of their past experience. Not long ago, i would have done the same thing. And yes there ARE big problems in giving training advice over a forum to a person with a fear aggressive dog or a rank aggressive dog. Huge problems.

You can make the dog worse, you can put yourself and others in danger, or you might hit the jackpot and get it right.

Rachelle I said "no big problems", from someone giving advice who knew the breed and its training well.

Keep in mind that this 'breed advice is irrelevant' tangent stemmed from your assertion that:

I don't understand why you'd be more likely to offer advice about your breed of choice, as temperament has squat to do with a dogs breed.

Of course you can offer advice on issues like grooming and feeding etc, but it is no safer offering behavioural advice for a breed you know vs one you dont. Temperament is not breed specific.

And I responded, saying your assertion was incorrect

and that when it came to ASD and CAO - understanding them as a breed

is the first step to successfully training them.

Hence, why breed advice was/is relevant

Edited December 6, 2007 by lilli

[Griffo]

I believe that teaching a dog to sit, carte training, house training is not breed specific, i believe that is what i said? The rest you can make assumptions about the rest till the cows come home.

It can be. Some dogs are notoriously difficult to house train, some make life very tough when you're trying to teach them to sit.

Some dogs will learn "sit" with a heap of praise, some need more motivation (ie. food, toy reward) and some just need a good ol' correction to really get the point through that sit means sit. Sometimes there's a behavioural reason why a dog won't obey, sometimes a medical. No-one is going to be able to accurately determine that over the internet though.

Also we all know there are generalisations about the temperament of every breed and although a lot of dogs vary, the basic temperaments are generally similar from breed to breed.

So I do think that even with a simple sit or heel that breed comes into it, behaviour certainly does. So where do you draw the line? Should people just stop giving any advice so the next person who asks how to get their dog to heel is immediately told to see a behaviouralist?

I don't see the harm in providing general advice and training tips. I also don't think that giving minor behavioural advice is a big problem as long as it's made clear that a behaviouralist would be the best person to seek out.

I've learnt an enormous amount about dog training and behaviour from forums and websites alone and if people were to stop posting this information for fear of leading others astray I think it would be a real shame as it's such a valuable way to learn about many different areas of dog behaviour and training.

Just look at Leerburg.com and flyingdogpress as examples...ooooodles of behaviour and training information there and I don't think it's harmful at all to have it around.

I absolutely agree with most of what you have written here.

I think that advice has a place on this forum, but as the thread was about the dangers of giving advice on a forum, well yes there are dangers. Should we stop giving advice? Absoltely not.

Should we be careful and understand that the dangers do exist? Absolutely

Should we INFORM the OP that there are dangers in giving advice over a forum? YES!

Should we stress that a professional is the best place to seek advice for things which DO need behavioral work?... well i think we should.

I think there is a line where the advice is safe and is not safe to give. I think there are also things you can to do to cover your bum when giving the advice like urging them to go to a class, trainer, behaviourist, whatever.

However, I dont think training is breed specific.