Puppy - Terms Of Sale

[BelgianPup]

I have booked a pup. Iinitially the pup was intended as a pet (i couldn't afford showdog prices and primarily wanted a pet anyway!) however the breeder has told me that my pup is very promising and asked if I would consider leaving her intact for 12 months to see how she develops with a view to showing her and possibly breeding her (if she comes up to breeding quality.) the breeder has been fantastic in answering all my questions and has explained that they will pay all costs associated with showing the dog and breeding. They have offered as much support as I would need to show the dog (assuming that she continues her promising development) and stressed that their goal is for all their dogs to be happy and well adjusted no matter whether they are pets, performance or showdogs so it would be entirely up to me how often she was shown and if I showed her or asked them to etc.

I am wondering if this is a usual clause to have in a contract of sale?(I am new to the world of Pedigreee dogs, having grown up with two delightful cross-breeds who adopted us!) And if other people have had similar experiences or could comment on the situation?

I had intended the pup to be primarily a pet dog (therefore desexed) with a view to undertaking competitive obedience and agility in the future. I am interested in showing but had assumed that the cost of a show pup would preclude me from that activity. This way my pup's price is fixed at pet price but I have the option of showing with support from the breeder.

I am also unfamiliar with what to expect from a bitch in season. So basically I guess I'm looking to get some feedback about ToS and showing/breeding. Thanks in advance

[Dogsfevr]

Okay what you need o consider is showing & obedience on weekends will often clash.You will be resposnable for keeping the dog in peak show condition.Someone will have to train this baby.How far away do the breeders live in relation to organizing dogshows.Who will be taking the dog to the show & who will pay that cost.

Weekend away shows or specialities in the east??

The showing part is the easiest part the breeding side is more technical.How many litters would they want if she turns out??

You may have to keep her entire for up to 6 yrs & then consider when shes in heat could be good trail weekends.

When she whelps she wont be with you.You also need to understand that things can go wrong when whelping & very occasionally the bitch can die,where would you stand??

I guess the key is how committed do you want to be to this type of arrangement.For many it works well for others it doesnt & you would need to make sure the contract covered yourside aswell

[BelgianPup]

Thank you Settlvr. They would want 1 litter, after which I could desex her. It would be entirely my choice as to whether she went to a show/obedience comp or stayed home.

[dogsforall]

for a contract to work you both have to be happy and willing to commit to the agreement

take into account if your circumstances change (eg. move interstate can't stand female cycles and want the dog de-sexed asap decide you don't want her to live somewhere else for maybe 3-4mths) will you still be able to hold up your end

what if the dog doesn't turn out show or breeding quality or doesn't pass testing is she then yours forever or will you have to pay some adjustment

i know getting a new pup is very exciting and it is hard not to look at all the positives you will be getting by having this pup

but if you are going to enter a contract look at everything that can go wrong and if the worse case scenario is something you can deal and live with then work out a contract with the breeder you are both happy to abide by

only advice i can give is think about it and try not to let your heart rule your head too much

can't offer much advice on the contract and prices all my pups are sold as pets first and if i think something is good enough and i can't keep it i give it to someone interested in showing and to have some fun with then if it doesn't turn out show quality they haven't really lost they still have a beautiful pet for free and if it does do well for them we both win my babies are out there doing well and they have a show dog they didn't have to pay for

best thing to do is talk to the breeder be upfront in what you are thinking honesty is the only way to go in these situations

dfa

[t-time]

You've got some great advice here

The only other thing I would add is that EVERYTHING must be in writing on the contract you sign.

Just as an example, should everything run like clockwork for the arrangements you've mentioned above, what if the breeder has a litter from her and then wants another? Neither of you can really answer that yet. You say that it will be YOUR CHOICE for desexing when she's had one litter but what if you would like to breed her after that one litter? Would the breeder be open to that idea?

Just saying that every detail needs to be on paper

I'm currently involved in 2 agreements which enable the breeders to have one litter per bitch in their prefix and then the bitch is signed over to me to do what I want. The agreement means I show whenever I can, I pay - my terms. The bitches get mated with a dog of the breeder's choice, have a litter and then get signed over to me. I get a puppy of my choice from the litters. No money has exchanged hands for the dogs in question.

I have to query the fact that you are paying for the dog as a pet, yet the breeder wants to run her on with a view to showing. Regardless of who is going to pay for shows, shampoos, upkeep etc, that's a lot to ask of someone who doesn't currently show and really only wants a desexed pet for agility and obedience. Also, there's the membership question of whose name the dog will be shown under (yours or hers) and transfer of papers back into the breeders' name when it comes around to breeding time.

On the other hand, you say you think you would be interested in showing - that's great and I hope you love it and this could be a great way to get into it! But it sounds like a lot of hassle and I have to question the breeder asking you for the money if in essence she is keeping the bitch, getting her shown, promoting her prefix and then breeding from her.

You get a nice pet out of it - nothing wrong with that - but it's a pet with a lot of strings attached. I feel that the breeder is getting the good end of the deal. After all, you could just pay pet price, the dog is all yours forever, forget the showing for now and concentrate on obedience and agility without the hassle of seasons, show dates conflicting with trial dates and paperwork!

There are quite a few "ifs" in your situation and I feel you need to make sure every single "if" is covered under contract.

As setterlvr said, there are many successful contracts but it doesn't always work for both parties so you must be careful. Good luck with it all

[Pug Hugger]

I would advise don't do it.

I am currently stuck in one of these contracts and every few weeks the story changes.

I paid pet price for my dog but have since been informed that I am not allowed to tell people I paid for him as then my breeder cannot show him - whereas the way I understand it is that if I was registered with SACA it would not be a problem.

What annoys me is I work in a law firm (I am in my fourth year of law school) and my boss drafted hte contract with me - now she keeps wanting to change it.

Think very carefully about it is all I am saying - I certainly would not do this again.

[alanglen]

Personally I'm not a fan of these "breeder terms of sale" and cannot imagine why you would pay for a dog and then not be allowed to do with it what you choose. I am aware of lots of these contracts but they are a minefield and do be careful. Personally I would stick to the pet only and full purcahse term which should still be avaialble if you have booked the pup and paid a deposit as it wasn't part of the original plan. You can then still still show it as you please etc.

If you are not 110% with the contract then find yourself another breeder and pup. Best wishes

[Wilooka]

I would never enter into any agreements ever again no matter what. It's either your dog solely or not at all. And be careful if there is too much mention on rare bloodlines or similar - stay away no matter how much you may like or want the dog.

Just my views and opinion - been there, done that. :D

Regards

Jeanette

[poodlefan]

Pughugger:

I paid pet price for my dog but have since been informed that I am not allowed to tell people I paid for him as then my breeder cannot show him

Who told you that? "Pet price" does not equate to "limited register".. what you paid for the dog is no bar to showing it regardless of who owns it. Do you mean that because money has changed hands, the breeder cannot claim she owns the dog..that is quite different.

Hell, I can show FHRP's dogs if I want to.. (provided she signs the entries) and I have no ownership of them whatsoever.

Someone is misleading you methinks.

Edited December 4, 2007 by poodlefan

[jacobite]

I agree with Wilooka and Poodlefan.

You buy the dog and he/she is YOURS...... end of story.

The only qualification we make as a breeder is to say...... any problems and you want to get rid of the dog, bring him/her back to us, we will arrange good home.

Dave

[sidoney]

For my first litter, I had a breeding agreement with some people. The girl doggie in question had two phantom pregnancies when she came into season and her owners asked if they could desex her. Of course I said fine. And we finalised the agreement.

I have not done it again. I think it's much simpler to just either own or not own a dog, outright, rather than having part ownership or some kind of agreement. There are so many things that can happen.

[centitout]

i have done 2 breeder contracts(verbal) with people that have turned out to be excellent.they got a bitch for nothing,i share the first litter with them and then the bitch is signed over to them(they know that if they dont pass any tests they are not to be bred=desexed)1 is being shown next year.it can be as simple or as complicated as you like but i wont be doing any more breeders contracts.i am just extremely picky as to who i sell a dog to,but even more so a bitch.i have heard of some breeders that have contracts(the new owner still has to pay for dog etc) that states if that dog can be shown,if it can be bred,what sires are allowed to be used and they take 1/2 of every litter.get real.i would never buy a dog with those conditions.

[Belljari]

I think contracts can work as long as it very clear and both parties are happy.

Maybe buy her as a pet and do not sign the contract and run her on for 12 months to see if she is going to turn out.(for the showring) Did you want to desex her early on or can you wait 12 months which could mean 2 seasons or only 1 if she doesn't come in until she 12 months. Then assess what you would like to do.

If you would like to show maybe get the breeder to enter a couple of shows and go along to see if you like it or not.

Just have a talk to the breeder and keep your options open it doesn't sound like the breeder is pressuring you to sign a breeders contract and they would still be happy for you to have her as a pet.

[BelgianPup]

Thank you all for your great advice!