Toileting My Puppy & Other Dramas

[Lolly]

My border collie is 10 weeks old this week. I've been spending a lot of time on toilet training and I wonder if I'm using the right techniques?

After he wakes, eats or plays I take him outside. When he's doing a wee or poo I say "toilet, toilet, toilet" over and over again - is this right? Do I say it only when he's actually doing his business? I also praise him afterwards. The problem is sometimes he doesnt go wee or poo when I take him. He's learnt I will take him out if he goes down stairs and sits at the back door, but then he dicks around eating the grass or sniffing at the ants. He wont actually go to the toilet. I spent an hour last night waiting for him to go to the toilet outside, only to have him wee on the carpet the second I bought him inside.

The other thing is he barks at me a lot. If I tell him NO to chewing cables or something, he barks at me. What do I do? He also barks at me while I am making his dinner. While I am writing this post he is sitting at my feet barking at me.

He's generally very well behaved for a puppy. He will come when I call his name and walks very well on the lead. It's just the barking - and he bites too, he's biting harder and harder as the days go by.

He is going to be a show dog so I cant teach him to sit for his dinner. I do make him stand still before I put it down but he barks while I am making it.

[sidoney]

For toilet training, take him out on a lead. Stand still and don't interact with him. If he's on lead he can't wander around sniffing. Just wait until he goes - it might be a while at first. Then praise, interact, and you could let him off the lead to explore too if you want. He learns that the boring bit is over sooner if he wees. He also needs to learn to wee on lead for showing so it's a useful thing to learn.

Try saying the toilet word when you can see he's about to go. Otherwise the association is with not toileting. If you can, have the word in advance of the action - that makes the association, but fine to keep saying it when he does it. You can praise while he's doing it. "goooood toilet".

Look up "bite inhibition" - there is plenty of info on it and how to train it.

My Kelpie barks. Generally when excited or to get interaction. I remove attention when she barks - this can include removing myself.

Definitely don't give attention to the barks - you may be doing that without realising it. If you tell him no, as soon as he stops the behaviour, you can call him to you and praise him for that, or just call him away from whatever he's doing. If he barks while making dinner, try removing him (without interacting, just clip a lead on and take him away). He learns that when he barks he goes somewhere boring. Or you can remove him before you make the dinner and let him in when you are ready.

My working dogs get so excited when I make their dinner that they are prone to barking. Especially with Xia, reducing the barking is a lifetime project.

[vic2010]

Have you brought your concerns up with the breeder?

With the biting, he would be teething and so if he goes for your fingers distract him with one of his toys and encourage play with the toy. This is totally normal behaviour with a pup.

With the barking, he could either be wanting you to play with him or he could just be bored. Being a BC they are a working dog breed and require maximum stimulation and activity. Considering what they were initially bred for, they can get bored very easily.

Maybe take him to obedience training, say that he is a potential show dog, and generally the instructors will be ok if instead of sit you teach stand. This would give him the interaction with other dogs that he needs and also direction with his general training.

[GoldD]

My 13 week pup was also barking whilst I was making his dinner, breakfast lunch at 9-10 weeks old. If the bowl was there he would bark!

I ignored him, completed making his dinner and would then walk away without looking at him. If the barking stopped (and by then I was in another room) he would usually have followed me (not barking then) I would go and get his food and he would be fed. I often would get myself a piece of food so he followed me to the other room in dismay - my bowl is there and now she's eating! Put him in his place in the pack very quickly. This took 3 days and now he dare not bark otherwise 10 mins passes before he eats. Tough but necessary.

Sorry rather long winded but hope you get my drift!

[Jasslyn]

I am definitely not an expert but I can tell you what I did with my BC boy. With Flynn I found I had to take him out every 20 minutes at that age, depending on the time of day/night. He pees more frequently at night. I didn't put him on lead to go out but he would walk beside me. If he seemed to be more interested in sniffing and playing, I'd move to another part of the yard. I generally found that if he was going to go, he would pee at the 3rd spot we'd go to so I started moving through 1 and 2 faster to get to 3! I waited until he started to wee and then I'd say "good boy, go potty". A few times I gave him treats but then he'd forget to finish weeing Once he realised he got praise for going to toilet, he had to learn that he only got praise if he went to the toilet outside. Each time he had an accident inside, I'd just make a disappointed "oooohhhh" sound (think about the sound a kid makes when mum says they can't play with the toy they want -ooohhh mum - and that's the noise I made) and I'd pick him up and put him outside while I cleaned the mess.

With the biting, I had suggestions to yelp like a dog but my first response when something hurts is to say ouch so I just took to saying ouch really loud. When that didn't work I tried ouch and removed myself. I found after 2 days of ignoring him for a good 5 minutes after he bit me he learned not to bite. I also started giving him bones and other chewy things - this helped with the biting of me and the teething. Now he knows when he feels the need to be destructive to just go and get one of his bones.

I don't have any suggestions regarding the barking at you, as Flynn only barks at birds but I suspect GoldD's suggestion would be very helpful. It is helpful to remember that BCs are very social animals - they need your company and attention, so I suspect it would be a very powerful tool if you reward undesirable behaviour with absolutely no attention, unltimately he wants to please you and be with you so he'll soon learn what doesn't please you.

It will be worth it in the end, he will eventually "get it" and you'll wonder what you were worried about!

[charli73]

hi Lolly,

sounds like you're doing all the right things. We did exactly what you're doing with our 6mnth GSD and said 'toilet' as she was doing her business then praised her as she finished and now she goes where we want her to (down the side of the house) on command so keep up the good work! It will pay off.

She also used to carry on crying & barking while making her dinner so id walk away & return when she was quiet. Always eat before her, we never used to as we heard it didnt matter but i have found her behavior change HEAPS since we started to only a few weeks ago.

She also was barking at me for no reason except attention so I found walking away taught her it wasn't on! It did the trick too.

Lots of different ways but these helped me when i had exhausted all other tips, something to try anyway

Goodluck...now if we could just get her not to scare the cat...

Edited November 30, 2007 by charli73

[Lolly]

Thanks for your replies ...

The breeder says he's testing me .. yes, he certainly is. Today I dont like him at all.

Everyone keeps saying he will want to please me, but I dont think he cares what I want. When I praise him (I pat and speak in a high voice), he just looks at me and walks away. It's like he has no concern whether I'm pleased or not. He no longer comes when I call his name. I'm going to start walking him because he walks very well on the lead and I'm hoping that wears him out a bit in the afternoons as he sleeps all day long (I wish he'd sleep as long in the night as he does in the day!).

He spends all day long with me - I take him to work. Yesterday he barked for 1/2 hour all the way home in the car. I kept saying NO and held his nose and said NO, scruffed his neck and said NO. Nothing worked - he just kept going for 1/2 hour. By the time we got home I would have gladly returned him to the breeder.

We start puppy pre-school today so I'm hoping that gives me some tips on managing his behaviour. He's such a beautiful dog and obviously smart .. I'm feeling a bit sad that I'm not enjoying him at the moment.

[poodlefan]

Lolly, a 10 week old puppy is far too young for any kind of regular onlead walking. He's also not fully vaccinated yet is he?

Congratulations and welcome to the world of owning a very smart, very energetic breed. The key to having a successful relationship with this dog is to demonstrate to him, by being absolutely consistent, that what you say goes.

Right now, its you doing all the work to get his attention... you need to reverse that and make him work for you. Look up NILIF and TOT on here and make him WORK for your attention.

I would find a good dog training club and trainer and view this training as a lifetime occupation for such a smart dog. He's a working breed and he needs a job. Either you find him one or he'll find one for himself.

Agree with Sidoney's recommendations on toilet training.

Edited December 4, 2007 by poodlefan

[Lolly]

He'll be 12 weeks this Friday and he's had his 1st and 2nd vaccinations.

[poodlefan]

He'll be 12 weeks this Friday and he's had his 1st and 2nd vaccinations.

He's still far too young to be pounding pavements to tire him out Lolly. The rule of thumb followed by quite a few people (including me) is no onlead exercise (training is fine) until 6 months old. Growing joints and ligaments can be damaged by too much exercise.

[Lolly]

Hmmm .. so the pelting, crazy, running around the house and yard at top speed and the running up and down the stairs, jumping from the 4th top step to the bottom of the stairs over and over again (which goes on for about an hour ...) can't be good either? I would have thought a nice, calm 15 minute walk on the lead would be much more preferable than the current out of control, freak out, witching hour, every afternoon we currently have ..

Maybe I should be cutting out a sleep in the day then?

[sidoney]

Jumping up and off the steps is not good for him, you are correct. Can you block it off so he can't do that?

Apart from that, pups will play and free run until they get tired, and then stop. Walking a pup on lead means that the pup will try to keep up with you even if it's had enough - you take the choice away.

All my pups are going to their new families with the book "The Perfect Puppy" by Gwen Bailey - this is a very good book for puppy owners - I think you would find it useful.

[Budyjelle]

Sidoney...I may need that book also....thanks

[BelgianPup]

Thanks Sidoney... have just looked the book up on Amazon and it looks very useful - a good common sense approach adn easy to understand for first time puppy owners... I will be asking Santa for one definetly!

[Budyjelle]

Thanks Sidoney... have just looked the book up on Amazon and it looks very useful - a good common sense approach adn easy to understand for first time puppy owners... I will be asking Santa for one definetly!

I have already ordered one on line ....Hurrah!

[sidoney]

Hey, glad to have been able to make a useful suggestion for you!

[special_kali]

hi, i think no one else has mentioned it but when my dog was a baby and being naughty i used to hold her snout closed and say NO quite forcefully, then turn away from her. it stopped her barking very quickly. esp when her barking would bring me out on the back steps just to reprimand and then stand there ignoring.. it might take a few days but don't give in! hope this helps!! good luck!

Edited December 15, 2007 by special_kali