Animal House Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Ugh. Ok after much talk with the OH and thought, we have decided to go ahead with a more stern course of action. Turtle nipped at the back of my leg tonight and I swung around and bopped him on the nose (I'm using the word "bopped" for the more sensitive of us out there - for those of you who realise my circumstance and know the level of consequence I need to take it to; he would have felt it.). He then barked at me (defiance, no?), so I bopped him again and outside he went (I feel like if I had let it go and ignored the bark, he would have won...was that right?). He was quite compliant when he came back in. But then when I sat down on the couch (about 20 min later) to read a book, he came around in front of me, sat down, and started that really annoying barking. So I stood up and put myself in time out. OH said he hung around the door and then went to see what he (OH) was up to. I felt horrid after doing it, I know it's not supposed to feel good. By the way, we are going to book into a trainer who deals with behaviour issues when we get to Melbourne in a week. It's time for action. I will keep you guys updated, hopefully there will be no more nipping - fingers crossed for me. I'm not entirely confident though. Okay, Im not a trainer or a behaviour specialist, but bopping the dog on the nose wouldnt have helped any. Taking him by the collar and rough "NO" and then time out would have been a better option. I think you need to see a trainer and very quickly as these things can get out of hand, and you will have a very defiant dominant HUGE dog. Good luck with it....Oh, I see you are going to Melbourne, and you can get a behaviouralist to see him, good luck. I dont understand why the breeder sold you a dominant puppy...seeing as your a relatively inexperienced dog owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikesPuppy Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Do you mind sending me a PM with the breeder's name/prefix? Like Cazablanca I don't quite understand why a breeder would sell you such a pup. Yes, Newfies are gentle giants but they can be dominant and they can be damn stubborn. Their size can also be very daunting, even if you don't realise it. They are very, very clever dogs who, if given an inch WILL take a mile. I love them, they are my heart breed and they are, as said above, very gentle giants but they can also be horror teenagers. Temperament is also a bit of a concern these days in some lines I have seen, the true Newf temperament doens't seem to be around much in today's youngsters- only the older dogs seem to have the real newf nature from my observations. Good luck with Turtle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 (edited) newfnewf just as an aside: some breeders do not know how to pick a dominant puppy but MOREOVER sometimes a pup responds to its environment and 'ascends itself' so to speak (ie: if you are not particularly clear about being leader, your middle-of-the-road pup will exhibit dominant behaviour.) Dominant behaviour can be exhibited whenever there is no clear leadership - just because your pup is behaving the way you describe, it doesn't necessarily follow that your pup is actually very dominant by nature. Edited December 3, 2007 by lilli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 (edited) Do you mind sending me a PM with the breeder's name/prefix? Like Cazablanca I don't quite understand why a breeder would sell you such a pup. SpikesPuppy and Cazablanca, the pup may not be overly dominant - and just may be an intelligent puppy responding to a lack of clear leadership. Edited December 3, 2007 by lilli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal House Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Do you mind sending me a PM with the breeder's name/prefix? Like Cazablanca I don't quite understand why a breeder would sell you such a pup. SpikesPuppy and Cazablanca, the pup may not be overly dominant - and just may be an intelligent puppy responding to a lack of clear leadership. Ah, thanks lilli, your probably right there. I just thought the OP had said the breeder told her the puppy probably was a pushy one when she rang for her advice. Again, good luck with your Newfy, Im sure you will get some expert one on one advice in Melbourne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie_the_Frenchie Posted December 3, 2007 Author Share Posted December 3, 2007 (edited) Yes Lilli, I think you are correct here. I don't think he was particularly dominant when the breeder sold him to us (not over-bearingly anyway), she is a responsible and reputable breeder but we had information overload which transcribed to confusing and poor leadership. There was no clear path for him. I realise that now - hindsight is an amazing tool, yes? Believe me, I wish I could go back and chose one path and stick to it! Spikespuppy, I'm not sure what good giving you the breeder's name will do as I honestly do not think she is at fault...I am, for giving him poor leadership. If she had sold me a dominant pup, you're right, it would have been irresponsible, but I don't think this is the case. Thanks for your comments on Newfs, it's always good to hear from a fellow owner Looking back at things last night and talking with OH, it all made sense that he became confused and desensitised (as Cosmolo puts it). We are booking in for a session with someone who I believe will help. I agree, Cazablanca - it didn't feel like the right thing to do, and as I have said, I realise it was the wrong thing to do without professional advice. Thanks Chloebear, it's always good to hear from someone else that's struggling, it's great that it worked out so well for you...fingers crossed! Bub - it's nice to know you don't think I'm a monster! Thanks again guys for all of your advice and support. EDIT: I'm a slow typer! Spikespuppy, sorry you got in before me! The breeder did say he was the "naughty" one, but she explained it wasn't a bad type of naughty, just a little cheeky. I took that to mean he had some spirit, and that's what we wanted. I should have looked into it more, perhaps. But that's the naive first time puppy owner for you! Edited December 3, 2007 by newnewf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I have never had a puppy that nipped, but I have had a few wannabe dominant mouthy puppies that like to push the limits. When they first start doing it I go very still and say 'Uhhhh' in a harsh growly voice then if they persist I take them by the scruff of the neck, give them a little shake, growl "Uhhhh' much more loudly and still holding them by the neck move them away from me. Then I walk away and ignore them. It works very well and they seldom repeat the behaviour, if they do the 'Uhhhh' is usually enough to remind them that I don't consider mouthing an acceptable behaviour and they stop immediately, if they dont they get another slightly harsher correction until they learn. I have always found that a growly "Uhhhh' is a much more effective deterrent than the word 'No'. If a dog hassles me by hanging around trying to get my attention I tell it 'Get away' and if it doesn't move I repeat the command and walk straight into the dog using my body to push it along and out of the way. Of course not all puppies need this sort of treatment, but you do get the odd one or two with strong wills who like to try it on. I never, ever hit my dogs, but I don't employ a completely 'hands off' approach either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peibe Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Goodluck with Turtle Make sure you come back and tell us what the trainer recommended and how it has helped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie_the_Frenchie Posted December 4, 2007 Author Share Posted December 4, 2007 will do for sure peibe, thanks :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikesPuppy Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Do you mind sending me a PM with the breeder's name/prefix? Like Cazablanca I don't quite understand why a breeder would sell you such a pup. SpikesPuppy and Cazablanca, the pup may not be overly dominant - and just may be an intelligent puppy responding to a lack of clear leadership. :D I understand this and agree for sure, but was just responding to what the OP said about being sent a 'naughty' pup. I have known breeders use terms like 'naughty' to describe pups that they send to very novice owners, and these breeders are not responsible- and I do know there are some like this in the Newfoundland breed. I do sincerely hope that you and Turtle get the help you need and everything works out for you and your family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joypod Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Hi Newnewf, I've been following this thread with interest and just wanted to pop in and wish you luck in Melbourne. Do come back and let us know how you went. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poodle wrangler Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 So glad to hear you're getting some help to address any issues . It's one thing to read, another thing to do. We're all learning and have made mistakes. Even experienced dog owners can have problems and need assistance- it's much harder to see what YOU're doing wrong even when you can see it with others. Can't see the wood for the trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
percyk Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 yeah just catching up with newnewf here hope it all irons itself out here glad youre getting advice we had to return a particularly dominant standard poodle pup..had him assessed after he was nipping and dominating my four year old..( years ago).. finally the behaviourist who bred standards conincidentally deemed him unsuitable as a pet we just didnt have the time nor the inclination to work with an errant dog...not with full time work and a small child...we needed a dog to fit in im sorry youre having some hiccups with a newfie...i so adore the breed and always assumed they were placid as! dont give up...you have the time still to correct him ...and it's wonderful to see you putting your heart into it... wish you all the very best and please keep updating...Turtle is a special dog of the Kimberleys now...cant give up ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie_the_Frenchie Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share Posted December 5, 2007 Thanks for your support and positive thoughts percyk...you don't know how much is helps! Don't worry, I will not give up on the little man...I believe he is a lovely dog that hasn't had the right leadership, and all of that is going to change over xmas (not the lovely dog part...I hope!). That georgous gentle nature of the newfie breed is definitely in there...just gotta will it out more often! Let the adventures of Turtle the Wonder Dog of the Kimberley continue...!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chloebear Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 I must admit newnewf, I enjoy reading your threads because I am finding them helpful to me to. I got Holly thinking that if you give a dog a loving home that is all that matters everything else just fulls into place. I too have provided Holly with very confusing leadership, I was treating her like a child and not like a puppy in the words of my vet "you have two children, treat them like children and treat your puppy like a dog" at the time I thought she was just being nasty, now I realise the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee lee Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 (edited) Hi newNewf, just putting my 2 cents worth in (tho prob only worth 1 :wink:). My now nearly one-year-old staffy x pup went through the same challenging behaviour at about 7 months, lots of forceful mouthing and nipping of all of us including the kids which was a BIG no-no. But i'd like to give you some hope- it didnt happen overnight, but after a couple of months of persistant correction she completely stopped it Cant tell you exactly what we did but it was a bit of all of the above. (thanks for the good advice guys!!) Generally speaking she had to pay attention or get a (small) smack or (big) growl/Uh Uh. I agree with whoever said its better to say Uh Uh (harshly and deeply) than No. somehow it just gets through better. Oh, and i find that rather than turning away from my dog when she was being pushy i would walk towards her into her comfort zone whilst saying UH UH, then make her sit, drop and stay. then praise her once she had done it. In fact WHENEVER i need her to behave (visitors in the house, wanting to chase cats when out etc) she is made to sit, drop and stay. So basically what i'm trying to say is, he is young and WILL get better with persistance but it wont be next week, or the week after, or after- but eventually. After 2 kids you'd think i wouldve worked that out earlier- Its only looking back i can see how impatient i was! (still got a few issues- but thats another story!) So good luck with the trainer!! Dee Edited December 6, 2007 by deelee2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Looks like Turtle has some admirers! I'll be sure to come back into the thread after next week and give my thoughts after seeing Turtle!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie_the_Frenchie Posted December 6, 2007 Author Share Posted December 6, 2007 yeah chloebear, I thought that too...what's wrong with giving him lots of love? Now I know, too much and he thinks he's top dog! Deelee2, thank you so much for sharing your experiences...sometimes I feel I'm on my own a bit! That's nice to know that someone else has gone through something similar and gotten through it...gives me hope. UPDATE: Over the last couple of days, I have remained really really calm with Turtle and tried to be assertive and strong, but calm. I took a really quick look at Cesar Millan's website and just read about the calm leadership part. He has definitely responded (who woulda thunk it? ), so there is hope for me! Booked in with underdog training for next thursday and really looking forward to learning heaps, and will update you guys after that to let you know. Thanks for all your well wishes and support everyone...it means a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikesPuppy Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 If you're anywhere near Williamstown next Thurs/Fri/Saturday, pleeeease drop by The Paws Store with Turtle, I would love to meet him ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggrooma Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 I'd also be talking to a few really experienced Newf breeders and get their input on this behaviour, which is obviously quite concearning for you. As it should you sound like a very responsible owner. Unfortunantly not all Newfs have the laid back, sweet, gentle nature they should. I say this because of first hand knowledge. Some lines appear to be having temprement Issues. Im not saying this to be a know it all or to scare you, I really feel for you but ive just seen the worst happen. Im sure with the correct guidance you can coorct the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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