Scent Discrimination

[laffi]

I am trying to teach my dogs scent discrimination. I am doing it using clicker training following Morgan Spector's advice from "Clicker training for Obedience" (I am working on the fluencies).

In the book is says basically to first hold one scented leather object and C&T for smelling it. Then hold 2 leather objects in your hands, one carrying your smell and C&T every time the dog indicates the scented object. It also says to switch hands so that the dog doesn't go to the same hand all time time.

I think I started switching my hand too soon and now my girls just indicate randomly (go to the hand that they last time got a C&T from without realizing it's switched).

Maybe I am switching too much? I am asking them to indicate about 10 times during one session and I switch about 2-3 times? Should I first have a few sessions when I don't switch hands at all? How long did it take your dog to learn it? How far apart should I hold the objects?

Usually they learn really fast (within the first session) but here we had 4 sessions already and I decided to stop and educate myself because it doesn't seem like we are getting anywhere?

[Kavik]

It sounds like you might be confusing your dog.

If you hold both objects in your hand they will both have your scent on them, so I am confused too. Are you teaching scent descrimination for obedience? Or scent detection? I am assuming scent descrimination from your description. If so, you want one with your scent and any other objects you use to have no scent on them.

I haven't taught this exercise for obedience before, but I would start with one object with your scent on it, and put it on the ground. Then proceed with c/t. The method I have read about the most includes the retrieve early on. Regardless, I wouldn't introduce another object until your dog alerts or retrieves the first one really well. Any other one you introduce needs to have no scent - that means you don't touch it with your hands, you have to de-scent it and use tongs or something else to place it. If they both have your scent on it, you will confuse the dog.

[laffi]

It sounds like you might be confusing your dog.

If you hold both objects in your hand they will both have your scent on them, so I am confused too. Are you teaching scent descrimination for obedience? Or scent detection? I am assuming scent descrimination from your description. If so, you want one with your scent and any other objects you use to have no scent on them.

I haven't taught this exercise for obedience before, but I would start with one object with your scent on it, and put it on the ground. Then proceed with c/t. The method I have read about the most includes the retrieve early on. Regardless, I wouldn't introduce another object until your dog alerts or retrieves the first one really well. Any other one you introduce needs to have no scent - that means you don't touch it with your hands, you have to de-scent it and use tongs or something else to place it. If they both have your scent on it, you will confuse the dog.

Thanks. Just to clarify, in order to 'put a scent' on an object Morgan Spector advises to hold it for ~5 sec. That should be enough. I actually wear it on myself for about 30min-1hour before. (Sort of like with a scent article before tracking, that BTW one of my dogs it really good at. So I am quite confused what I am doing wrong since I am 100% that the two articles smell very differently).

[Kavik]

If you are holding both objects in your hand, then both objects have your scent on them. If you are trying to get the dog to target your scent, this would be confusing if you are rewarding for targetting one but not the other. I would suggest de-scenting the one you don't want the dog to target, and not to touch it at all, I would place them on the ground, on a box, or mat and use tongs to move the non scented article. First I would go back to one article only and build up your target there so you are sure the dog knows what to target.

[laffi]

If you are holding both objects in your hand, then both objects have your scent on them. If you are trying to get the dog to target your scent, this would be confusing if you are rewarding for targetting one but not the other. I would suggest de-scenting the one you don't want the dog to target, and not to touch it at all, I would place them on the ground, on a box, or mat and use tongs to move the non scented article. First I would go back to one article only and build up your target there so you are sure the dog knows what to target.

Sounds good! Thank you

[Ptolomy]

I am now on obedience dog number 5 and the best method for teaching scent discrimination can be found at dogscout.com

Three days ago I started my youngest dog on scent and she is already working with the full set of articles and reliably bringing back the one that smells like me.

I suggest you have a look and give it a go....

[ness]

Great minds think alike Ptolomy - I sent laffi the link through PM and then said don't stress about the dog not catching on too quickly after all it only took Ness how long .

ETA. If baby red dog is so realible already think anybody would notice if I switch just for scent at the trial .

Edited November 24, 2007 by ness

[PAX]

Ptolomy,

Have you ever tried the way Mary Ray shows by putting a piece of food on every article?

If you did what did you think and did it help or hinder the scenting?

[ducky]

Laffi..... if you hold a leather object in both hands the dog won't have a clue cause they both smell the same...

what I found best find an object that you want to train your dog on finding do the old put the hands behind your back trick and have the object in one hand with say a treat (i used chicken) then when he goes for the chicken the other smell say leather he inhales too keep rewarding him with the chicken.

Keep on doing that changing hands don't worry about washing them he will go for the strongest smell then remove the chicken from your hand and he should signal on the leather then make him sit and reward him with chicken keep going on that for a while.

Later remove the food treat from the reward and play tug of war with a rag (he will get his food after training as a reward)

Then move onto buckets with lids in a line with a hole big enough just to get his nose in but he can't reach the object, then choose if you want a pawing response or a sitting response, only have one or two buckets with the object in say a row of 8 have a smaller same coloured tupperware containers (some air holes in the top lid) in there so he can't look into the buckets and see the object just smell it. Play with him with the rag when he sniffs the bucket with the object even if he doesn't indicate he will learn too just gee him up.

Then there is more steps to get him searching rooms will tell you later if you choose this method.

My pup is now searching rooms for hidden small objects but needs heaps more training but I found this method worked for me, best book I read out of 15 different scent ones was one on explosive detection just replace the explosives for whatever you want.

[ducky]

Sorry missed a bit.. my pup was too small when I started to move to buckets so after the hands I moved to matchboxes with only one matchbox out of 5 having the object to find then when he finds it reward him then keep doing that for a while then start putting other objects into the matchboxes of differnt smells even treats but he only gets rewarded when he indicates the object you want then move to the tupperware containers (not see through) using the same method as above then after a while move those tupperware containers into the buckets.

Later change the objects that hold your scent that you want detected with different containers ie metal pipes, pvc pipes, wooden containers what ever you can think of.

[Ptolomy]

I have found the hardest obedience dogs to teach scent to are BC's no idea why

Yes I have tried placing food on the scent article - but the dog, which was a BC, started checking out all the articles in the hope of finding food. You then had to get rid of the food which seemed to take a while. When the exercise fell to bits it also wasn't as easy to rebuild.

The worst part of the dogscout method is the throwing of the article as I am hopeless at throwing - so I tend to go and place the article. Have to also say - to begin with I am not worried about turns, holds or presents - its just find the one that smells like me. I also find that you have to keep progressing and not do lots and lots of repetitions, at some point around when you have 4 articles on the ground the dog all of a sudden realises and starts smelling the other articles and makes a decisive choice on which one to bring back.

Good luck

[FHRP]

I am now on obedience dog number 5 and the best method for teaching scent discrimination can be found at dogscout.com

Can you post a direct link to the scent discrimination method? All I get are links to other sites if I click on the Dogtraining link. Thanks

[Ptolomy]

Oops missed the "s" off dogscouts.

Here tis......

http://www.dogscouts.com/scent.shtml

[FHRP]

Oops missed the "s" off dogscouts.

Here tis......

http://www.dogscouts.com/scent.shtml

Thanks Ptolomy. This is very similar to how I taught my Vizsla scent discrim

[sidoney]

Good link, thanks.

FHR(and now P) ... methinks you need a new siggy!

[FHRP]

Good link, thanks.

FHR(and now P) ... methinks you need a new siggy!

Am working on it

[laffi]

Thanks everybody . I am going to work on it using the dogscouts method ;) and start with a metal article.

Will keep you updated

[Ptolomy]

Good luck!

[ness]

Yep good luck and if you want any help just ask laffi - can be the blind leading the blind - isn't that right Ptolomy .

[laffi]

Yep good luck and if you want any help just ask laffi - can be the blind leading the blind - isn't that right Ptolomy .

:p :D :p