Is There An Aus Company That Makes Bite Developers, Sleeves, And Scent

[Nekhbet]

Hey ducky where do you live. Local council must be ecstatic to have backyarders like you training their dogs to bite, and improperly. Declare yourself so the council can keep an eye on you and your 'theories' and all the local families can be protected.

people like you make my head hurt. I know best, I am so great blah blah blah. You know nothing of proper working dogs and how to handle. All you are doing is satisfying your own macho urges. Theres a one handed exercise that does the same. Heck of a lot safer then trying to train a dog to attack which is basically all you are doing no matter how long you try and convince us otherwise. People like you are the reason trainers dont give free information and the laws on having a protection dog are tight.

The fact you poo poo on Jeff shows you know NOTHING.

[ducky]

Nice bandwagon jumping guys I can see you on it now patting each other on the back, giving each other the 'smiley nod look' like singers on Aus Idol and of course keeping a sly eye out for a greyhound trainer to pounce on.

Your all right, I know nothing about dogs as I only have 30 posts I actually think I may have a cat, a large cat named 'Butch', and to the poster who pitied my cat as I mistreat him you are right he is kept in a cupboard and only brought out to bite a towel then back in the cupboard where he enjoys hosings with a fire house (got that training off an 80's Stalone movie) then I butt out a few cigarette on him.

And vetenirary work why would I take it to a vet when I have watched so many episodes of 'Mash' and if Doogie Howzer can do it so can I!

Training, yes your right my cat and I have no idea and just bounce ideas and theories off each other then give it a twirl, why once when I told Butch to sit he molested one of those guys dressed in a koala suit getting donations he was just on his leg going for it and no matter how many times I said 'enough' he just hadn't had 'enough' so I just took a seat and waited to hand him a cigarette after it.

Now it's onto the next unPC poster you Texas Rangers, look for someone with low posts who doesn't know of the unwritten code of respecting the posters with higher posts then you and who dares to say I train my dog on this way when he should know that he should keep it secret and hide it as poeple can read him or threaten to take his cat away using council bylaws.

Caesars I Salute You

Peace

[Kavik]

People are actually giving you constructive advice . . . and this is how you respond.

Not sure what else you actually want?

[Staff'n'Toller]

I've only trained one protection dog with qualified and experienced trainers and I can pick holes everywhere in your 'methods'.

I can't believe you wouldn't want to go learn from the Pro's, protection training is not just straightforward, it's very 3-Dimensional depending on the dog you have.

You may not see it now, but you are creating a dangerous dog, nothing that you are currently doing is creating safeguards for yourself or the dog.

Mel.

[Erny]

I can see you on it now patting each other on the back, giving each other the 'smiley nod look' like singers on Aus Idol and of course keeping a sly eye out for a greyhound trainer to pounce on.

No. Contrary to what you might prefer to believe, we're concerned for the ultimate welfare of your dog and for people who are exposed to badly and unwisely trained dogs such as where your dog is headed. No-one will be the winner in that scenario. Not even you, Ducky. Nor us. And not the dog.

We've all simply expressed opinions, given you as much advice and good reasoning as possible so that you don't create trouble before you know it. It's your call on what you do. And your responsibility. Such is life. Good luck.

Edited November 26, 2007 by Erny

[PAX]

So is this a Staffy or a Gundog, not that it matters but I wonder.

[Erny]

So is this a Staffy or a Gundog, not that it matters but I wonder.

It's a Pointer, Pax. A Gun Dog. Not a dog bred for the genetics usually favoured for formal protection training. Great dogs but they do have a mind of their own and even in usual situations (eg. training for hunting which is what they are bred for) unless they're under training by someone who knows what they are doing, the results can go awry.

Edited November 26, 2007 by Erny

[PAX]

Thanks Erny, poor dog.

[Golden Rules]

Nice bandwagon jumping guys I can see you on it now patting each other on the back, giving each other the 'smiley nod look' like singers on Aus Idol and of course keeping a sly eye out for a greyhound trainer to pounce on.

Your all right, I know nothing about dogs as I only have 30 posts I actually think I may have a cat, a large cat named 'Butch', and to the poster who pitied my cat as I mistreat him you are right he is kept in a cupboard and only brought out to bite a towel then back in the cupboard where he enjoys hosings with a fire house (got that training off an 80's Stalone movie) then I butt out a few cigarette on him.

And vetenirary work why would I take it to a vet when I have watched so many episodes of 'Mash' and if Doogie Howzer can do it so can I!

Training, yes your right my cat and I have no idea and just bounce ideas and theories off each other then give it a twirl, why once when I told Butch to sit he molested one of those guys dressed in a koala suit getting donations he was just on his leg going for it and no matter how many times I said 'enough' he just hadn't had 'enough' so I just took a seat and waited to hand him a cigarette after it.

Now it's onto the next unPC poster you Texas Rangers, look for someone with low posts who doesn't know of the unwritten code of respecting the posters with higher posts then you and who dares to say I train my dog on this way when he should know that he should keep it secret and hide it as poeple can read him or threaten to take his cat away using council bylaws.

Caesars I Salute You

Peace

I actually found that post very funny!! Maybe it's the few drinks I've had tonight?!

Why do I get the feeling someone here is winding everyone else up? I'm not normally that perceptive with these posts but I reckon Ducky has a few people on the run here!

He/she will do what they want to do regardless of advice........be it right or wrong or indifferent.....

Cie la vie

[Erny]

He/she will do what they want to do regardless of advice........be it right or wrong or indifferent.....

I'm pretty sure we all realise that D&D ..... I know I do. But at least we won't be guilty of having a hand in or encouraging it.

[MonElite]

Not sure what else you actually want?

He wants a name of a company that sells gear for protection training

I actually found that post very funny!! :D Maybe it's the few drinks I've had tonight?! :D

I found that post funny as well, and i didnt drink

Questions for ducky - why are you so agianst a professional advice?

[Erny]

I actually found that post very funny!! Maybe it's the few drinks I've had tonight?! :D

I found that post funny as well, and i didnt drink

So did I. But I was thinking it was Ducky who'd had a few drinks! :D

[Griffo]

Ducky, we are not going to give you the bullets for the massacre you want to go on. No one who wants a clear conscious will answer your original question.

You did not get the response you wanted to hear and now you are chucking a tantrum.

Everyone else who has tried & failed to train their dogs using books must have very low comprehension and reading skills because apparently you are finding it quite simple to train your ( ) Pointer ( :D ) in PP, how very clever you must be.......while the rest of the world forks out money on professionals, you are clever enough to just read a book. If only we could all be so intelligent, imagine the money we'd save....

I am predicting that Pointers may be the next target of BSL.....

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: Ducky, I can see that you have come to the decision that people here are just out to tell you what to do, or actually what you shouldnt do, but, if you just think for a moment you will see no one here will lose or gain from anything that you do with your dog, so they probably just have your dogs best interest at heart.

Protection training is (as others have said) a specialist field. Yes there are many trainers out there training protection that shouldnt be, & dont have the specialist skills, but I no longer refer to them as "protection trainers", rather people who create nervous, vicious, unpredictable & uncontrollable dogs.

In the end, no one wins at that game, when they get their "protection dog" home, they are all excited about the prospect that they have more security, through protection, when in reality all they have ended up with is a liability. A dog that fast becomes a pain as any time you have any one come to your home, they become a target for the dog. The dog ends up being a pain & it cant (ethically) be rehomed.

On top of all this, take most of these dogs to an area that is not considered the dogs territory & it will most likely run in the face of a real attacker.

I am guilty of only scanning through this thread over a bite to eat but have a few thoughts to offer..

D: I have succesfully trained a dog before in bite and sleeve work without reading any books through guestimating, the only problem I had with him was kids breaking into my yard to take my dog to the park to fetch the tennis ball for them when they were playing cricket.

K9: I would wonder in whose eyes was this dog successful when kids were breaking in...?

Another thing is that, I have worked with (trained) thousands of dogs, I have never trained two that were exactly the same.

D: What I did before was start off with a rag with tug of war then move onto similar material towels wrapped up in larger and larger sausages holding it in the air giving a comand when he was going for it and jumping around the place when he grabs it and play tug of war until he looks like he is going to give up then I let it go.

K9: This is training in prey drive (by the sounds of it). Which is fine, very basic work.

D: The way to make him release... I use the word 'enough' which I used all the time with him and the new dog which basically means whatever you are doing now is annoying me so stop it from licking my face, eating a shoe, not letting go off the tug toy if he still holds on I use the same way you give a dog a tablet push his lips into his mouth doesn't hurt the dog he just knows if he continues biting he will bite his own lips (which they never do) or I just stick a couple of fingers in his mouth if there is a gap and I have never had a dog in 15 years who has bitten them as from a puppy I will always take food from their mouth's when eating then give it back.

K9: I would ask you this, why would a dog let go when you say enough? The dog doesnt understand english, so the enough command is paired with an experience that generates avoidance in the dog. I would wonder why the dog would be any kind of protection dog when it can be driven into avoidance with a word?

D: Then moved onto the same material towels wrapped around my arm, that was from guesstimation...... If I ever told my dog to attack then someone holding a towel was going to get it taken off them if no one was holding a towel then he would look blankly as I never hid the towel by wearing a jacket as I never wanted to take that step.

K9: This means that your training has created an "equipment focussed dog", like a sport dog, & your attacker would need to behave in a certain way to help trigger your dog...

D: So my theory is that it is an easy train to get to that level if you use the same material 'toys' that get biggger and bigger over a period of time and to turn it into a true attack dog you use a hidden sleeve so he can not see that he is after a toy but an arm. I haven't done aggression training or guarding training as I want them friendly.

K9: I am sure you know an attacker wont be friendly? So how do you feel your dog wil respond when the decoy is now, for the first time, a real threat... Most dogs will knock their handler over when they turn & run into the handlers legs in full avoidance...

It appears you have a small amount of targetting & bite development, but believe me when I say that this is not even the tip of the ice berg.

If you are just playing games with your dog, as it appears yo are, then I cant see too much harm in what you have said.

If you are going to be relying on your dog to protect you, I feel that two problems exist.

1. You will be putting your unprepared dog in the firing line, in which it will most likely be kicked.

2. You would be better focussing on protectng yourself as if your focus is on your dog, & it isnt working, you will be open to attack.

Good luck anyway, but at least in this instance, have a rethink or speak to a pro...

Edited November 27, 2007 by K9 Force

[Jeff Jones]

If you are going to be relying on your dog to protect you, I feel that two problems exist.

1. You will be putting your unprepared dog in the firing line, in which it will most likely be kicked.

2. You would be better focussing on protectng yourself as if your focus is on your dog, & it isnt working, you will be open to attack.

3. it is highly likely your dog will just stand and point at the person as they are attacking you.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9:

[Nekhbet]

Jeff, well at least one creature in the equation will be a great witness for a line up ... dogs pointing to man #3.

This could be a whole new field of dog training we havnt explored!

[Jeff Jones]

I think we need to register the idea before someone steals it.

Ducky at least get the dog assessed by K9 Force, I highly doubt you have selected a pointer with the correct temperament to commence this style of training.

As Sardog has said:

"GUNDOGS ARE FUNDOGS"

[ducky]

K9: Ducky, I can see that you have come to the decision that people here are just out to tell you what to do, or actually what you shouldnt do, but, if you just think for a moment you will see no one here will lose or gain from anything that you do with your dog, so they probably just have your dogs best interest at heart.

Protection training is (as others have said) a specialist field. Yes there are many trainers out there training protection that shouldnt be, & dont have the specialist skills, but I no longer refer to them as "protection trainers", rather people who create nervous, vicious, unpredictable & uncontrollable dogs.

In the end, no one wins at that game, when they get their "protection dog" home, they are all excited about the prospect that they have more security, through protection, when in reality all they have ended up with is a liability. A dog that fast becomes a pain as any time you have any one come to your home, they become a target for the dog. The dog ends up being a pain & it cant (ethically) be rehomed.

On top of all this, take most of these dogs to an area that is not considered the dogs territory & it will most likely run in the face of a real attacker.

I am guilty of only scanning through this thread over a bite to eat but have a few thoughts to offer..

D: I have succesfully trained a dog before in bite and sleeve work without reading any books through guestimating, the only problem I had with him was kids breaking into my yard to take my dog to the park to fetch the tennis ball for them when they were playing cricket.

K9: I would wonder in whose eyes was this dog successful when kids were breaking in...?

Another thing is that, I have worked with (trained) thousands of dogs, I have never trained two that were exactly the same.

D: What I did before was start off with a rag with tug of war then move onto similar material towels wrapped up in larger and larger sausages holding it in the air giving a comand when he was going for it and jumping around the place when he grabs it and play tug of war until he looks like he is going to give up then I let it go.

K9: This is training in prey drive (by the sounds of it). Which is fine, very basic work.

D: The way to make him release... I use the word 'enough' which I used all the time with him and the new dog which basically means whatever you are doing now is annoying me so stop it from licking my face, eating a shoe, not letting go off the tug toy if he still holds on I use the same way you give a dog a tablet push his lips into his mouth doesn't hurt the dog he just knows if he continues biting he will bite his own lips (which they never do) or I just stick a couple of fingers in his mouth if there is a gap and I have never had a dog in 15 years who has bitten them as from a puppy I will always take food from their mouth's when eating then give it back.

K9: I would ask you this, why would a dog let go when you say enough? The dog doesnt understand english, so the enough command is paired with an experience that generates avoidance in the dog. I would wonder why the dog would be any kind of protection dog when it can be driven into avoidance with a word?

D: Then moved onto the same material towels wrapped around my arm, that was from guesstimation...... If I ever told my dog to attack then someone holding a towel was going to get it taken off them if no one was holding a towel then he would look blankly as I never hid the towel by wearing a jacket as I never wanted to take that step.

K9: This means that your training has created an "equipment focussed dog", like a sport dog, & your attacker would need to behave in a certain way to help trigger your dog...

D: So my theory is that it is an easy train to get to that level if you use the same material 'toys' that get biggger and bigger over a period of time and to turn it into a true attack dog you use a hidden sleeve so he can not see that he is after a toy but an arm. I haven't done aggression training or guarding training as I want them friendly.

K9: I am sure you know an attacker wont be friendly? So how do you feel your dog wil respond when the decoy is now, for the first time, a real threat... Most dogs will knock their handler over when they turn & run into the handlers legs in full avoidance...

It appears you have a small amount of targetting & bite development, but believe me when I say that this is not even the tip of the ice berg.

If you are just playing games with your dog, as it appears yo are, then I cant see too much harm in what you have said.

If you are going to be relying on your dog to protect you, I feel that two problems exist.

1. You will be putting your unprepared dog in the firing line, in which it will most likely be kicked.

2. You would be better focussing on protectng yourself as if your focus is on your dog, & it isnt working, you will be open to attack.

Good luck anyway, but at least in this instance, have a rethink or speak to a pro...

Bingo!

What you've written is what I came to hear, I said previously that I just want to teach to bite up to the sleeve then if I want to take it further go to the pro for advice, the danger I see in that that if anyone jumps the fence wearing a soft looking plaster cast on his arm then he can consider himself unhealed other then that walk past the dog, pat him on the head and take my 'Kiss' video tapes I can't see a dog trained in that as a menace to society.

I wouldn't attempt in guard or aggression work cause I don't have the heart for it as some books instructions are a little 'cruel' , so will just go with what is his natural instinct and see after I get him to the sleeve work what a pro will tell me.

Why a pointer as I researched they are friendly and not the coldest beer in the fridge so I wanted to challenge myself and see what I could do as I would respect more someone who say taught an Irish Wolfhound Obedience then a GSD.

Why won't I take him to be assessed now cause the response would be "Get cuddles out of here' so want to give it a go to the 'sport stage' then see what I sould do.

And I have no hesitation that my dog would do the runner on me if I was assaulted but I don't judge him on that, and I'm not going to rely on a dog to protect me or my family I am going to rely on me and the vulcan death touch but still let me have a go at training it.

[MonElite]

Hey ducky - perhaps you should see who has given you the Bingo reply .... use the www button under the persons name.

want to give it a go to the 'sport stage' then see what I sould do.

the dogsport clubs wont take you as you dont have an eligible breed, but you can always make your way to Horsley Park and see what they say aobut your ideas. Just dont be surpised if they will tell you the same as eveyone here did.