Nuisance Dogs (barking) And Council

[Kirsten44]

Hi,

I have a 14mth old german shepherd and a very difficult neighbour (Jenny) who complains about anything. I moved in 1 year ago and have been a pretty good neighbour i think.

My dog (Ebonee) apparently barks when i am not home. Jenny had mentioned this to me about 8 months ago i had bought a barking collar which works on high-pitched sounds at the vibration of a bark.

The collar ran out of batteries, but at this stage i figured that Ebonee had not continued to be a problem as Jenny had said it was working some weeks after i put the collar on her.

Anyway, I again got a letter from Jenny saying that Ebonee was barking friday from 9:30 pm (for hours) and on saturday night again till 5am. And that she's put up with it for long enough and she will be informing the council.

I was home with Ebonee on Friday night from 5:30pm, and I was awake till 12:30am and there was NO barking from Ebonee. When i went to bed at 12:30 Ebonee slept in the room with me as she does every night. Saturday night I was out till about 4:30 so i am unsure if Ebonee was barking or not.

There is another dog which barks behind my block. I suspect this is the dog which was barking on Friday night, however i did not notice it and it did not bother me in the slightest.

Following the last complaint, i have bought a new device to install on the fence between me and my neighbour which hopefully will help. And i have placed the barking collar back on Ebonee with new batteries. But all of this wont necessarily stop my back-neighbour's dog from barking, which untimately gets Ebonee into trouble with Jenny.

I want to know what kind of proof does council need to issue me with a noise complaint? I am in Warringah council, but i do imagine most councils will be pretty much the same. Has anyone had this probem in the past? Can I ask to see some video proof?

Since my neighbour has got it very wrong on the Friday night, how do i know she is not mistaken about saturday night? Also she said she stuck her head over the fence to see if it the barking was from my dog on saturday night, but Ebonee will certainly bark at her if she does that, so circumstantial video over the fence is not going to prove anything to me, she would have to install cctv camera over a period of time for me to believe that Ebonee is a nuisance and for me to pay a council penalty!

[sidoney]

As far as I know, it varies with the council. (Where I am, it is very difficult to get any action apart from a form letter over barking dogs.) Which is good for me in regards to my vexatious neighbour who, like yours, complains over anything he can, but difficult for me in terms of another neighbour whose dog both barks and fence charges.

I would suggest you call yours and discuss the situation. As you have an anti barking collar I think the council would see you as doing something about any barking.

[Reddii]

Since my neighbour has got it very wrong on the Friday night, how do i know she is not mistaken about saturday night? Also she said she stuck her head over the fence to see if it the barking was from my dog on saturday night, but Ebonee will certainly bark at her if she does that, so circumstantial video over the fence is not going to prove anything to me, she would have to install cctv camera over a period of time for me to believe that Ebonee is a nuisance and for me to pay a council penalty!

I know how difficult and stressful a situation like this is for you - we had a similar problem with a pup with severe s.a. and a loony neighbour from 3 doors away about 12 months ago. Although we didn't get a formal complaint I did check with our council (Brisbane) to find out where we stood and understand the process.

The first time around you get a warning that there has been a complaint. Then if there is another complaint within a fortnight (regardless of whether it is the same person) you get a visit and a formal warning. The complainant and other neighbours are interviewed and asked to fill in a diary of when the barking is occuring. This is then substantiated by the ranger (not sure if that's what they are called, but the dog dude any way) who will sit out the front of your place and listen for your dogs. (basically they are allowed to bark for 10% of any hour or half hour depending on the time of day.) From memory it is at this point that you get a first fine and 30 days to fix the 'problem'. From there it gets progressively more seriouswith fines until you can be asked to remove your dog/have your dog seized. All up there is a lot of onus on the people complaining and it is a lengthy process, but at the end of the day seems quite fair. There are strict time frames around when complaints need to be made and the whole process resets once those time frames have been passed.

Best thing to do is check with your council about their regs though. Hope you work through your problems and it all turns out OK.

[Sarah L]

Kirsten44 I would set up a pet cam of your own. Put it towards where the neighbour looks over the fence. Some dogs are antagonised by neighbours and then blame you for the barking. A pet calm is now legal evidence in court. But lets hope it does not go that far.

Sidoney you are right she should phone her local council and check there criteria for that area on barking dogs.

Reddii what you have said is very good advice and I think most councils follow the same procedure.

Last time I looked at the noise pollution stats, then barking dogs came second to aircarft noise which was the top of the list.

Also kirsten44 you can get a noise pollution expert out to test the readings and determine the noise level of your dog if it is under the stated levels your neighbour does not have a leg to stand on.

[sidoney]

Hey what is a pet cam? I've not heard of that. Are you meaning as evidence that the neighbour is stirring up the dog? Or as evidence that the dog is not barking as much as alleged?

Edited November 20, 2007 by sidoney

[Kirsten44]

Thanks everyone, that is all great info. i think that i will call my council and get the lowdown.

Pet cam might be a bit expensive right now, but i certainly thought of it. You can even buy IP cameras these days that work on a wireless network and you can even check on your dog by logging into the internet! very cool.

Reddii, your council sounds like it has a good way of dealing with it. 10% of the hour is very fair. Honestly i dont know what Ebonee is like when i am not there, but i am sure that the device i have bought will help out somewhat. Besides, most nights i am home, it is just the rare occasion like on saturday night, when i cannot prove she was indoors with me as i was out.

[skip]

My boss told me at work the other day he was kept up by his own dog barking as the batteries went flat in its anti bark collar. Its only a little cav but evidently it knows when the collar is dead and goes from quiet to bark non stop! So even if your collar did stop your dog once they can start again.

I'd try and talk to your neighbour again. Explain the batteries went dead but you thought the barking was stopped. Tell her its on again and let her know you are trying. Ask for her help in feed back to you. I understand she must be a pain and its not that bad but applease her anyway. Keeps the peace. Call it sucking up but you need to make them think you are being proactive. The letter was pretty rude way to tell you but just ignore this. You don't have to like her just keep her happy. See if she will beleive you if you suggest its the other dog? But hard as it is don't tell her she is wrong if she is adamant it is your dog.

This is just my opinion and some would say ignore your neighbour cause she's a idiot! But I worry about what people do these days. One of my rescue dogs had S.A. really bad and the whole street knew the first day I went to work!. I explained the problem to my nearest neighbours and they gave me a little leeway until we sorted something out. One neighbour even lent me her dog as a companion until I found another mate for him.

Sounds like you are very respondsible and trying hard. Good luck!

[Sarah L]

Hey what is a pet cam? I've not heard of that. Are you meaning as evidence that the neighbour is stirring up the dog? Or as evidence that the dog is not barking as much as alleged?

Hi sidoney, I mean both, A pet cam is basically the same as cctv there are company's out there that hire them to people who are having trouble with there neighbours over their dogs. Because cctv is now classed as psychical evidence it is allowed in a court of law. Great in my opinion. Also just setting up a normal video camera is accepted as well.

The major thing to back up the video physical evidence is the noise pollution experts who come out and monitor the actual noise level of the dog. This may be a bit expensive, but is very worthwhile in my opinion to back up the video evidence if things get to an escalated stage. Their evidence is irrefutable and will win a case every time so long as the noise is under the stated levels.

Kirsten44, Ok saying your dog does bark when left alone do you think it could be a sign of separation anxiety, other symptoms can but not always be.... the dog will follow you from room to room all the time, whines to get back to you even in the company of others while you are there, will not readily accept being left with someone else. Constantly will want to be patted from you. Pants and salivates a lot of the time even when you are there. These are just some of the symptoms.

Let me know if any of these are occurring because you may need some training advice on how to deal with it.

Edited November 20, 2007 by pinnacle dts

[Griffo]

Hey what is a pet cam? I've not heard of that. Are you meaning as evidence that the neighbour is stirring up the dog? Or as evidence that the dog is not barking as much as alleged?

Hi sidoney, I mean both, A pet cam is basically the same as cctv there are company's out there that hire them to people who are having trouble with there neighbours over their dogs. Because cctv is now classed as psychical evidence it is allowed in a court of law. Great in my opinion. Also just setting up a normal video camera is accepted as well.

The major thing to back up the video physical evidence is the noise pollution experts who come out and monitor the actual noise level of the dog. This may be a bit expensive, but is very worthwhile in my opinion to back up the video evidence if things get to an escalated stage. Their evidence is irrefutable and will win a case every time so long as the noise is under the stated levels.

Kirsten44, Ok saying your dog does bark when left alone do you think it could be a sign of separation anxiety, other symptoms can but not always be.... the dog will follow you from room to room all the time, whines to get back to you even in the company of others while you are there, will not readily accept being left with someone else. Constantly will want to be patted from you. Pants and salivates a lot of the time even when you are there. These are just some of the symptoms.

Let me know if any of these are occurring because you may need some training advice on how to deal with it.

Dont mean to step on what you have written, because there was some great advice you have offered!! But, I dont think that you can make a suggestion of separation anxiety, a pretty serious diagnosis, without seeing the dog.

Not saying it can not be a possibility but it really isnt something you could suggest without knowing AND seeing a lot more.

Obviously if the barking is a problem, and simple fixes do not work, then the owner should seek the assistance and advice of an experienced behaviourist in person.

[kaywoman68]

There used to be a 'journal' or certain amount of days in which you have to fill up when the problem dog is barking but not anymore. Where I am in the ACT, a letter gets sent to the possible 'problem' dog's owner and surrounding people. Not sure how many houses (for me, I could count 35 houses when I requested all the information i could get re: dog complaint for my dogs). All was needed was 2 complaints from the letters being sent around and you get issued with an abatement notice. You must "solve" the problem or else you get a fine.......

The complaint that was issued against my dogs and I were that they were barking heaps in the early hours of the morning (about 8:15am) and at late hours of the night (about 8pm). I drove around the house quite a few times in the mornings and didn't hear a thing ;) The complainant said it had been happening for months!!!! ;) Why they didn't leave me a note or come to talk to me, i have NO idea!!!!! The neighbour right next to me (has her kitchen facing my backyard and home majority of the time with one baby and one toddler) came over and said she hardly hears them. Anyway, it all 'conveniently' happened before christmas and their paperwork wasn't even done properly (the abatement noticed issued wasnt' even signed ). Apparently the ranger came and confirmed that they bark........

Anyway, they now stay inside the house during the day. They can bark when they want and if anyone complains, well....I would tell them that they're inside my house and it's my property so they can get ;) () I let them out when I get home and that's like 2pm (afternoon) and 5:30pm which is perfectly acceptable cos there's no-one asleep and sometimes the screaming kids and loud thumping music are a lot more annoying.........

What I would suggest is to keep a journal of the times she does bark when you are home and she's outside, circle around the block a few times OR sit in your car down the end of your street or something after you leave and see if she barks...........

Good luck with it all!!!!

[chloebear]

My neighbourhood, it is a case of pick the dog that isn't barking (rural subdivision).....grrh. Most have multiply dogs 3 or more, don't walk them or spend that much time with them, know they bark and just put the airconditioner on so they don't get kept awake.

[Kirsten44]

Hi Pinacle,

in reference to your message:

Kirsten44, Ok saying your dog does bark when left alone do you think it could be a sign of separation anxiety, other symptoms can but not always be.... the dog will follow you from room to room all the time, whines to get back to you even in the company of others while you are there, will not readily accept being left with someone else. Constantly will want to be patted from you. Pants and salivates a lot of the time even when you are there. These are just some of the symptoms.

In the morning when i am getting ready for work, she does walk around the house from room to room with me sometimes, depends on whether she feels like gnawing on a nearby bone or playing ball. Every day it's something different. In the afternoon when i come home she wants to play for about 1/2 hr and then she settles down. She doesnt whine when i leave her or lock her in the backyard, she is used to it from age 8 weeks. she is obviously energetic when around new people but doesnt whine, even when she has been naughty: jumping up on people, running away from me when i call her etc. i put her in a crate to calm down (naughty corner). She is quiet and doesn't whine at all. She's also not phased about pats, only stands there and lets me pat her when i've gone straight for her tummy

I dont think she has separation anxiety, more boredom is the problem. She associates that fence with the cat that torments her. Whether the cat is there or not, i suppose she barks at it when i am not there, when i am there, she can be seen at times running up and down the fenceline. The cat is locked inside the house at night i am lead to believe so at night there should be no cat to torment my pup.

[Sarah L]

Hi Pinacle,

in reference to your message:

Kirsten44, Ok saying your dog does bark when left alone do you think it could be a sign of separation anxiety, other symptoms can but not always be.... the dog will follow you from room to room all the time, whines to get back to you even in the company of others while you are there, will not readily accept being left with someone else. Constantly will want to be patted from you. Pants and salivates a lot of the time even when you are there. These are just some of the symptoms.

In the morning when i am getting ready for work, she does walk around the house from room to room with me sometimes, depends on whether she feels like gnawing on a nearby bone or playing ball. Every day it's something different. In the afternoon when i come home she wants to play for about 1/2 hr and then she settles down. She doesnt whine when i leave her or lock her in the backyard, she is used to it from age 8 weeks. she is obviously energetic when around new people but doesnt whine, even when she has been naughty: jumping up on people, running away from me when i call her etc. i put her in a crate to calm down (naughty corner). She is quiet and doesn't whine at all. She's also not phased about pats, only stands there and lets me pat her when i've gone straight for her tummy

I dont think she has separation anxiety, more boredom is the problem. She associates that fence with the cat that torments her. Whether the cat is there or not, i suppose she barks at it when i am not there, when i am there, she can be seen at times running up and down the fenceline. The cat is locked inside the house at night i am lead to believe so at night there should be no cat to torment my pup.

Thanks Kirsten44, I was only trying to find out the reason for her barking, which when someone complains that there is a lot of then there has to be a reason for it. I went straight for the most difficult on first because it can be hard to overcome. However with the training methods I use even if it was s.a giving you some tips on it certainly would not have hurt you or the dog.

From what you have written, then there is a couple of things I would be working on

Barking at the Cat and running up and down the Fence Line: This can escalate very easily into becoming a constant behaviour.

Running away from you when you Call her: Your dog should come to you every time you call on her no matter what.

Jumping up on people: This is a safety issue especially if the dog is ever around children.

All of the above can escalate into constant behaviour very easily. Anyway I am not here to force my opinion onto you just looking ahead to possible problems arising from these behaviours. Please keep us informed how things go with your neighbour

Edited November 21, 2007 by pinnacle dts

[Kirsten44]

I would love to solve these problems, but how?

1. I call her when she does the fence thing, and that distracts her.
   
2. not sure how to make sure she comes when called I do try and praise her whenever she does come, but she's not really into affection when she is energised. Treats do nothing when out of the house and other people/dogs are around. She hardly notices that i am there.
   
3. Jumping on people, well she is getting better. I keep a water pistol handy for when visitors come, and I always ask her to sit and stay before i open the door. Some people can excite her though, and it is hard to ask them to be calm.
   

Any suggestions would be welcomed

[4 Paws]

I recently received a letter from council about my dog(although i have 3 so maybe its a standard copy)barking and i wondered if maybe it was more the dog that lives towards the back of out property but at the back as he sits against the fence and barks trying to get my dogs up there.I know that if they go up there they will bark at him so i had put up an electric fence that blocked that part of the yard.

I pop the web cam on everytime i go out pointing towards the yard and save them with the dates etc so i have proof.

[petsearch]

All I can warn you is don't let yourself be pushed around by council. We have had problems with neighbours (not barking, but noise and smell after only moving in a month beforehand and by a neighbour that doesn't touch our boundaries), but at the end of the day the council have very little power. They can advise, recommend and request things of you, but can't physically come onto your property without your permission (even the police can't do this). They must have alot of documented evidence before they can impose a fine on you, or even visit you. We have found that the rangers and other council staff are often unaware of their own procedures that must be followed, so make sure you are aware of the procedures so you can stand your ground and request the evidence.

[Kirsten44]

Thanks petsearch, I will find out the regulations, and stand my ground. When there is some doubt about who's dog is barking, and when i have bought the devices required to train her, i think I have been a responsible pet owner and considerate neighbour. She's got cats that are alowed to roam around the neighbourhood, It's no wonder Ebonee is upset with the cats and barks at them.

I am also keeping my own diary of times when i am home and Ebonee is inside with me. This is so that if the neighbour does come up with dates and times, i have my own version of events.

[Alpha]

Kristen44, Been there, done that, and I sympathize with you...as petsearch said be familiar with your councils regs although ours went against their regs and when pulled up on it just double talked their way around it anyway ;) I agree with the fact that the council will see you in the good light as you have already attempted to rectify the solution with the bark collar and other means. Keep your own diary when home of when your dog barks and why or if another neighboring dog barks. I would think that council would require a diary from the neighbor, but that did not stop our council acting without one with a nasty letter. You have a right to see a copy of the diary but be aware that they cannot/will not tell you who the complainant is ( like you cannot guess ) Compare it with any diary you may have for similar/same period and point out any discrepancies ( ie: neighbor stating dog was barking when you where out walking the dog or the dog was inside with you asleep...I love these ones) if the matter continues,you could go to mediation..that would show council that you seriously wish to resolve the issue. Dispute Resolution Centres are FREE and fantastic, we did it with our complainants( much to their wonder) and two of the four decided it wasn't so much barking anyway and only signed the complaint to be a "good neighbor" to the others and they other two we got to sign an agreement that they would approach us if the dogs were annoying them. WIN/WIN council has no more complaints to deal with and when they do , council refer them to the agreement they signed and they don't approach us because "they don't like us and we are unapproachable" :p ;) GOOD LUCK!!!

[Kirsten44]

Thanks everyone! some great suggestions here!

I have installed this little device this morning, started hammering just after 7am to get it installed, felt like i must have been disturbing the neighbour! But after 7am is ok apparenlty. Anyway, it was for her.

I will talk to the neighbour in a few weeks to see if she has felt it's made any difference.

[jaybeece]

As someone who's been in your neighbour's situation....TALK TO HER.

I dealt with non stop barking at night from my neighbour's dog for 3 months and it was hell. I was suffering at work and developing anxiety from lack of sleep. I'd complain to her and receive no feedback from her at all, except for a snide comment back of "Deal with it". In the end I went to the council out of desperation figuring I'd take up her suggestion and deal with it.

She did make steps to stop it but never asked ME if they helped. I had no way of knowing she'd done anything and she was very hard to get hold of as we worked opposite shifts so couldn't even follow up on my complaints to her.

I don't think your neighbour sounds all that unreasonable, barking dogs can cause a lot of stress so if she's still giving you feeback and not trying to throw things at the dog's head (I came close once) then she must be pretty patient.

She's not the enemy here, she could be a huge help to you. Work with her, talk to her and most of all try to understand where she's coming from. If she has the wrong dog, tell her.

Also, if sticking her head over the fence causes your dog to bark, can you have them interact a little more? Maybe just drop by on walks, go visiting or have your neighbour drop by. The dog is far less likely to bark at her if she's familiar.