Keeshond Pup Toileting Inside

[centitout]

i have a keeshond pup who is 5 mths old and he is impossible to toilet train.i wanted to have him as an inside dog but now he has started going doing his business on the lounges,clothes(one of the kids who was lying on the lounge)yuk!!he was taken right from the start outside every 1/2 hr,before,after meals/playing etc and was doing ok-he got heaps of praise when he went outside etc,all the normal things.the last couple of weeks he is getting worse ,i would take him outside,wait till he'd gone and bring him back in and then he would go and find somewhere and do it again!the crapping on lounges thing though and anything lying around is not acceptable and i have had to leave him outside now permanently.he was out yesterday all day so i let him in for a while-he was in for 5 mins and went and crapped on the floor-he doesnt do 1-he leaves a trail of small bits 3 foot long!! another lady who has his litter brother said hers was doing the same thing so he is outside now as well.i got him when he was 8 weeks,he is a fantastic pup apart from the toilet training,he is exceptionally intelligent,he sits,drops,crawls and rolls over,shakes hands etc,so why does he do this?it has got me stumped,any ideas?

[nynka]

i have a keeshond pup who is 5 mths old and he is impossible to toilet train.i wanted to have him as an inside dog but now he has started going doing his business on the lounges,clothes(one of the kids who was lying on the lounge)yuk!!he was taken right from the start outside every 1/2 hr,before,after meals/playing etc and was doing ok-he got heaps of praise when he went outside etc,all the normal things.the last couple of weeks he is getting worse ,i would take him outside,wait till he'd gone and bring him back in and then he would go and find somewhere and do it again!the crapping on lounges thing though and anything lying around is not acceptable and i have had to leave him outside now permanently.he was out yesterday all day so i let him in for a while-he was in for 5 mins and went and crapped on the floor-he doesnt do 1-he leaves a trail of small bits 3 foot long!! another lady who has his litter brother said hers was doing the same thing so he is outside now as well.i got him when he was 8 weeks,he is a fantastic pup apart from the toilet training,he is exceptionally intelligent,he sits,drops,crawls and rolls over,shakes hands etc,so why does he do this?it has got me stumped,any ideas?

I'm sorry I can't help with this but wanted to say I am totally floored to hear this of a Keeshond. They are such a clean dog, I have never experienced or heard of anything like this. All of my litters have been clean from 5 weeks. My last two litters have been inside and took themselves outside (via a doggy door) from the age of 6 weeks. Even with a young litter I can walk 2/3rd of the way down my yard and know that I won't step in any do-do because they go as far away from the house as they can.

My import at 10 months was in a crate for his flight for 25 hours+ and bounced out in quarantine without even a wee on the paper inside his crate.

I hope you can find some good advice and are able to sort this one out.

Edited November 18, 2007 by nynka

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I am printing my method here. Start right away and concentrate on it for as long as it takes. I had a difficult dog last year and it took me a couple of months to toilet train her. She went on my bed, the sofa etc etc but I just kept going with this method and it worked.

I have a couple of questions though, can he get out when he needs to go? I know you are taking him out but a dog door really helps.

Also, is he desexed yet?

HOUSETRAINING TIPS

Ok - first thing to do is decide on the command (I call it “do wees”) you will repeat over and over. You have to really focus on the dog for about 2-3 days to be successful. You have a pocketful of special treats on hand all the time for the first 2-3 days.

Walk the dog several times a day and every time the dog wees, you get very excited and keep saying “Good boy/girl, do wees, do wees” – give the dog treats every time.

First thing in the morning, last thing at night and every time you see the dog eat or drink (both precursors to weeing) whisk the dog into the garden and repeat the command “do wees”. Get very excited and present treats every time dog goes.

The dog’s aim in life is to please you. If the dog should have an accident inside the house – say NOTHING at all. The dog soon gets the idea that when he/she goes outside you are really, really pleased and he/she gets rewarded.

NB: Please note that the smell of urine must be properly removed for any housetraining to be successful. There are products on the market such as “Urine Off” but they are very expensive. A mix of white vinegar and water is a much cheaper alternative and should work for tiles and other surfaces although you should always take care with wood etc. For carpet/rugs, I use either a mixture of Napisan/water or bicarb of soda and water. I completely soak the stain using a dab on technique with a cloth. When it is very wet, I use an old towel to soak up the excess moisture. Again, be careful on any expensive carpet/rug, I have never had any problems but I cannot guarantee any method here.

[Weimlover]

My First 2 Kees were very clean but after having Keesha I can totally relate. Keesha was like that until she was about 6 months old She would even pee and poo on her bed, rather than go out : I swear she would hold it in when she was outside only to pee as soon as she got in the door, she drove the whole family crazy.

I did similar to what dogmad has posted

I would carry her fav treats and her rag bone around with me and before and after eating take her outside and keep saying "toilet" (you can use whatever word you want) , it took a long while to start with but once she got what I was saying went, I would feed her the treats and play with her using the rag bone for a couple of minutes while saying "good toilet" "good toilet" I swear the neighbors must have thought that I was a nutter Keesha soon worked out that it was much more "fun" to bark at the door and go out to the toilet than do it outside.

Goodluck with the toilet training :p

I would love to see some pics

[centitout]

I am printing my method here. Start right away and concentrate on it for as long as it takes. I had a difficult dog last year and it took me a couple of months to toilet train her. She went on my bed, the sofa etc etc but I just kept going with this method and it worked.

I have a couple of questions though, can he get out when he needs to go? I know you are taking him out but a dog door really helps.

Also, is he desexed yet?

HOUSETRAINING TIPS

Ok - first thing to do is decide on the command (I call it “do wees”) you will repeat over and over. You have to really focus on the dog for about 2-3 days to be successful. You have a pocketful of special treats on hand all the time for the first 2-3 days.

Walk the dog several times a day and every time the dog wees, you get very excited and keep saying “Good boy/girl, do wees, do wees” – give the dog treats every time.

First thing in the morning, last thing at night and every time you see the dog eat or drink (both precursors to weeing) whisk the dog into the garden and repeat the command “do wees”. Get very excited and present treats every time dog goes.

The dog’s aim in life is to please you. If the dog should have an accident inside the house – say NOTHING at all. The dog soon gets the idea that when he/she goes outside you are really, really pleased and he/she gets rewarded.

NB: Please note that the smell of urine must be properly removed for any housetraining to be successful. There are products on the market such as “Urine Off” but they are very expensive. A mix of white vinegar and water is a much cheaper alternative and should work for tiles and other surfaces although you should always take care with wood etc. For carpet/rugs, I use either a mixture of Napisan/water or bicarb of soda and water. I completely soak the stain using a dab on technique with a cloth. When it is very wet, I use an old towel to soak up the excess moisture. Again, be careful on any expensive carpet/rug, I have never had any problems but I cannot guarantee any method here.

dogmad,have been doing that!he isnt going to be desexed yet as i want to show him-it isnt so much the weeing as the pooing on lounges,rugs and once ,a kid!! he was out all day today,comes inside tonight and crapped on the rug.i cant tether him to me,as 4 kids and 9 bloodhounds+work mean i am in and out constantly.

[Bubitty]

centitout, I have often read your posts and all the great advice you give.

I am officially running scared at the idea of EVER getting a pup now after reading this thread of yours! If you can't train him what hope is there!!!!!!

Are some dogs just grubbier than others? Do they enjoy the dirtiness?

[Weimlover]

centitout he is gorgeous Kees are adorable dogs.

Goodluck with your boy I'm sure you'll have it all sorted in no time

Bub I think some dogs just like to be smelly, Keesha being one of them

Edited November 20, 2007 by Weimlover

[centitout]

he is an adorable boy,i love their intelligence,but not so keen on the "lack of personal hygiene" thing!!!.i got one because i had heard that they are very clean dogs ,unlike bloodhounds which can be very difficult to toilet train!!!

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

The dog I was talking about also poo'd and wee'd everywhere, on my bed and on the sofa. I just kept going with the method above, but constantly over a few days. It can be hard when you have other dogs because you really need to concentrate on it.

Another thing I did in the end, when I was desperate and had been going for a few weeks with the training to seemingly no avail, was to take the dog outside and wait until until my other dogs were weeing/pooing and hold the dog's nose closer to their backsides and say the words to my own dog "good dog, do poos/wees" etc. After a few days of doign this, this was the clincher for me. The dog was a very busy young dog and easily distracted so this focused her on what was actually going on ....

I would stop his access into the bedrooms until he's got it. Your sofa might still cop it though ..

[centitout]

gee ,thanks dogmad!! i have taken to letting him in for 15 mins at a time,and then out again,i'm also only feeding him morning and at lunchtime(that has reduced it a little).he is only 5 ths ,so maybe as he gets older it will get better?he suffered from seperation anxiety to start with,so i have gradually gotten him used to being outside and now he is fine with it,he can come inside when i'm there and able to keep an eye on him,outside when i am at work.

[jesomil]

Just a thought. I may be on the wrong track for your situation, but here goes .

Do you think that toileting inside may have become a habit?

As dogs are creatures of habit, they tend to get stuck in their ways. The more often he successfully toilets inside, the more his habit is being cemented. In his little head, he may think that the house is where he is meant to go. If only they spoke english!!

Can you completely restrict his access to only a tiny area inside so that basically he has no choice but to toilet outside? The more often he toilets outside, the more likely it will become a habit.

He can start having more freedom in the house once he regularly goes outside.

I think that if you allow him full access to the house, he will be very hard to train as you cannot watch him every second of the day.

[snarferama]

Having the same problem here.

Hermes was fairly clean- would never toilet in his crate. Bane our Mastiff happily pees in his crate and lays in it. We've had 6 "accidents" today. That's with me taking him out every half an hour at least, after every meal, every time he wakes up etc. I'm seriously thinking he's holding it in for when he comes back in.

He did 3 enormous pees within 20 minutes. How is that even possible?!

I can tell you Mastiff pup mess is not quick to clean up. It's like the room gets flooded.

[centitout]

as far as i know he was raised in a shed-so maybe he thinks the house is like the shed?i have restricted access to other rooms except for lounge and kitchen wich are open.just have to keep eyes in the back of my head!!!

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

centitout - there is your problem. Raised in a shed. I believe that the dog I had so much trouble housetraining, was locked in either a garage or a bathroom for the first year of her life. When I got her, she was very undersocialised, no idea of the outside world. I feed my dogs separately and at first, I tried putting her in the bathroom and closing the door. The minute, and I mean the minute I closed the door on on her, ie in any room, her, she would pee and poo everywhere.

If they are kept in that situation, just like an ex breeding dog, they learn to go where they are, there is no separation from bed/toilet and I think it makes it all the harder. At least yours is younger and should be more trainable.

Are you taking him on short walks as described in my method? Or is he too young to go out?

[Erny]

A thought from outside the square ..... how is the pup's internal/digestive health? Do the stools appear normal? Is he straining when he goes (constipation)? By the sounds of it, there's more to it than just this, but if health/diet is out of order, it could be having an impact on your attempts to housetrain.

Just a thought.

[centitout]

hi erny,

his stools are fine and he is regularly wormed.as an example-at work for 1/2 day yesterday,so he was out with the chi all that time.when i came home,i waited out the front until he had a wee,praised him lavishly and then let him in.20 mins later while i was getting lunch,i came into the loungeroom and he had crapped on the floor.didnt make a fuss,just took him out the front again.10 mins later i went out and played with him,did some basic obedience.let him in again last night after he did a wee outside,i was sitting on the lounge patting him when he got up and squatted before i could get up.outside again.

his litter brother is exactly the same to the extent that the owners leave him outside totally now.i have a side yard that he can access,as well as an open front door,but he will not go out unless put out.getting really frustrated!!!as i said before-tethering him to me is impractical to say the least,4 kids,9 bloodhounds and work means that when i am home i am always moving.