Socialization

[Stewie_the_Frenchie]

Turtle is 5 1/2 months old and lives with us in the remote Kimberley. He has had a little bit of interaction with other dogs, but they are mainly camp dogs (I live and teach in an Aboriginal community). The camp dogs are fine (they have regular shots), most of them, but I do worry about them snapping at him so I don't let him play with them. I am a little bit worried about how he is going with socialization. He is a Newfoundland, so his temperament is nice, but I know how important it is.

I am spending a couple of weeks at my father's property in Melbourne over christmas, where he will interact with two greyhounds and two Jack Russells (he will be 6MO at this stage). My query is, is this too late for him to be learning how to be around other dogs?

As I live in a remote area, there is no possibility for puppy preschool or obedience school (he has been steadily trained by me since I got him, though). I am very jealous of people that get to even take their dog to the park! Not that he has a lesser life, he's got the outback at his back door! He has been OK with the camp dogs, but tries to become dominant over some (and then gets growled at, which I have no problem with as he needs to learn).

Any advice or info would be greatly appreciated!

5 Months

[Joypod]

Hi newnewf,

I don't really have any advice for you (I'm sure someone will be on soon to give you some though) but I just wanted to say how absolutely gorgeous Turtle is. I remember the photos of him when you first got him.. and MY GOODNESS THEY GROW FAST!!

He's absoultely gorgeous. One big, beautiful slobber dog. :p My Aunty had a Newfie years ago called Mitty. He was the most loving dog in the world.

EFS

Edited November 15, 2007 by Joypod

[BlitznBear]

Turtle is 5 1/2 months old and lives with us in the remote Kimberley. He has had a little bit of interaction with other dogs, but they are mainly camp dogs (I live and teach in an Aboriginal community). The camp dogs are fine (they have regular shots), most of them, but I do worry about them snapping at him so I don't let him play with them. I am a little bit worried about how he is going with socialization. He is a Newfoundland, so his temperament is nice, but I know how important it is.

I am spending a couple of weeks at my father's property in Melbourne over christmas, where he will interact with two greyhounds and two Jack Russells (he will be 6MO at this stage). My query is, is this too late for him to be learning how to be around other dogs?

As I live in a remote area, there is no possibility for puppy preschool or obedience school (he has been steadily trained by me since I got him, though). I am very jealous of people that get to even take their dog to the park! Not that he has a lesser life, he's got the outback at his back door! He has been OK with the camp dogs, but tries to become dominant over some (and then gets growled at, which I have no problem with as he needs to learn).

Any advice or info would be greatly appreciated!

5 Months

I dont think its ever too late to start socializing a dog with other dogs, but what I would do is allow him interaction with other dogs (he is still young) but leave him on a leash, allowing him to lick and sniff, watch his body language, it sounds like he is fairly good with the other dogs anyway, my boys are good with other dogs but theres is always that one ocassion when Bear is running a muck with a dog and with being over excited they will get rough and I have to pull him out, sit him down for a little time out and he's fine.

Some dogs will growl at younger pups who havent quite learnt their manners yet with playing and I think its good for them to learn from other dogs, our 6 month old pup is all over the place with other dogs and if he gets too excited usually the older ones will put him in his place and we are fine with that as he is still young and doesnt quite know his limits of how far he can push the limit, but he is always supervised.

Your boy is gorgeous!

[Animal House]

I dont have any advice either, but he sure looks gorgeous. :p

How does he handle the heat up there? My ex has a newfie, and we are in Vic, and on mild days they have the airconditioning on, because the dog gets too hot.

Im sure someone more experienced will be along with some suggestions for you.

[Erny]

Socialisation is never "too late" but is sometimes "not early enough". Also know (in case you already didn't) that "socialisation" is not just about plonking your dog with another/other dog/s (or people or whatever other worldly thing you're socialising your dog to). It is about careful introductions and careful monitoring. The later socialisation occurs, the more gradual and careful the introductions need to be (due to any existing apprehension as a result of lack of early socialisation and also chances of hormones by now haviing an influence on behaviour). And it might not have the "carry-over" effect that early critical period socialisation has.

Given that Christmas is only just around the corner, it doesn't leave much time for you to gradually and incrementally introduce your dog to lots of other different unfamiliar dogs, but you might as well make a start. I normally recommend people begin by making introductions between dogs "off territory" and practice "parallel walking" (gradually allowing the distance between the dogs to reduce provided behaviour - watch carefully body language - decrees it to be ok). It's a good exercise in itself because not only does it give each dog time to 'process' the presence of the other dog and become comfortable with it (before they're upon each other), but it also avails the handlers more 'think/observe' processing time.

It might be the case that your dog will be ok - but if you take a punt on that, allow introductions too quickly and are wrong, not only do you then realise your dog DOES have issues with other dogs but also you have learnt behaviour to address. The "off-territory parallel walking" is a "better to be safe than sorry" approach.

ETA: If you can QUICKLY join a reputable dog training school (do it fast as they will all be looking to break for Christmas in a few weeks) who caters for dog/dog socialisation and have instructors experienced in canine communication, you might find the first introductions easier if you have professional supervision. Your call. :p

Edited November 15, 2007 by Erny

[Reddii]

I don't think it is ever too late eiither - you might just have to handle things a little differently. We went through a bit of a rough patch with my boy who was basically locked in our back yard between 4 months an 6 months with an injured elbow. He was really badly behaved with other dogs for about 2 months, but has settled back down to be by and large a good citizen now at 12 months.

[Dogsfevr]

It is never too late the key is though to do it correctly .

When you arrive i wouldnt just turf Turtle outside with the others.

I would do a nutral greet & meet with the JR first as there the ones to most likely react compared to the greys.

Simply dont just presume be the one aware of his body language & gauge when you feel he needs time out.

Ideally i would reward time out when he is being very good,so when he is either crated etc he is made to feel secure that his behaviour is good.

Then make the most of the time you have in Melb.Even if you plan to get him spayed i would do so in melb alot cheaper & vets use to giant breeds.

[Erny]

And in addition .....

Ideally, "meetings" should be short enough so that excitement doesn't get "over the top" - especially (but not necessarily only) when the two dogs don't know each other well.

Also - one of the things that create problems is when people have their dogs on lead but they don't move/co-ordinate so that the leads don't become entangled. Once the dogs feel the tension in the lead and find themselves caught together, this can spark off aggression ....... even in the most socialised of dogs.

And finally (I think) ..... if you believe it suitable and you allow your dog to meet another whilst on lead, avoid putting tension on the lead yourself (a common error) as this transmits to the dog and can lead to tension building up in him. You can hold the lead shorter if you wish, whatever ..... just make sure it is loose and that you too, are relaxed. Call your dog away (even if it's only been a few seconds - sometimes this is better) if you're not sure. You can always allow him to return to the "meet and greet" after you've given yourself time to think ..... and breathe :p.

Edited November 15, 2007 by Erny

[percyk]

Oh this brings back some great memories! Newfies! I, too, was working in a remote part of Oz ( NT) and was so close to getting a newfie but swung instead to the German shepherd.

I had an Aussie terrier too so my dog did socialise a little but really I dont think there was really a time for him to meet other dogs ( there was certainly no doggy school and most of the homes were rentals so not a big doggy population)

Did he suffer? Possibly. He was startled by a dally that rushed him as pup and I didnt know better. I didnt address this and I dont think he met with another dog even when I moved back to Sydney. I used to walk him every day through the shopping strips and he was fine with people but I dont think he liked other dogs. He lived with my dachsie and my aussie terrier so I thought he was fine).

Good on you for taking the work on in a remote area. May you enjoy the memories for the rest of your life. I certainly loved every minute of my time in NT!

Do keep us posted as to the meet and greet coming up!

[Stewie_the_Frenchie]

Thank you so much to everyone - wow, what a forum of constructive and particular advice! Erny, you in particular, I have noticed in the past, are such a thorough thoughtful dog owner when giving advice. Thank you for the step by step.

Also blitznbear, showdog, percyk and reddii, thank you for for such great advice. Socialization is something that is really important to me, and I must admit that I stress about him getting enough (oh man, it's like having kids!).

Cazablanca - during the dry months, he's not too bad. But it is starting to get quite hot now and the aircons are working over time, so I think the break over Christmas will be a welcome one for him. I tell you though, he loves his paddle pool and the dam!

Percyk, ah yes a fellow remote-worker! We are enjoying it very much - the kids love Turtle, they have never seen a dog like him before!

And joypod, thank you for the compliments on my boy - I will never get sick of them!

I will keep you guys posted after Christmas and let you know how your advice went! I'm sure he will be fine if I am atuned to his feelings.

Edited November 16, 2007 by newnewf

[benny123]

I don't know a great deal about dog behaviour (mainly what I read and learn here on DOL), but Erny etc may be able to answer this. Would it be better/wiser if Turtle met the other dogs on neutral territory (like a local park) first before venturing into their home turf?

[Stewie_the_Frenchie]

hmm, good question benny123

[Erny]

I don't know a great deal about dog behaviour (mainly what I read and learn here on DOL), but Erny etc may be able to answer this. Would it be better/wiser if Turtle met the other dogs on neutral territory (like a local park) first before venturing into their home turf?

Nuetral territory for initial introductions is always a safer option. It removes the possibility of territorial behaviour.

[grumbles]

Turtle is 5 1/2 months old and lives with us in the remote Kimberley. He has had a little bit of interaction with other dogs, but they are mainly camp dogs (I live and teach in an Aboriginal community). The camp dogs are fine (they have regular shots), most of them, but I do worry about them snapping at him so I don't let him play with them. I am a little bit worried about how he is going with socialization. He is a Newfoundland, so his temperament is nice, but I know how important it is.

I am spending a couple of weeks at my father's property in Melbourne over christmas, where he will interact with two greyhounds and two Jack Russells (he will be 6MO at this stage). My query is, is this too late for him to be learning how to be around other dogs?

As I live in a remote area, there is no possibility for puppy preschool or obedience school (he has been steadily trained by me since I got him, though). I am very jealous of people that get to even take their dog to the park! Not that he has a lesser life, he's got the outback at his back door! He has been OK with the camp dogs, but tries to become dominant over some (and then gets growled at, which I have no problem with as he needs to learn).

Any advice or info would be greatly appreciated!

5 Months

Im not sure if its ever too late to socialise but you may just want to watch how he interacts with the other dogs and step in if it gets too pushy and distract them