I Need Advice

[Perry's Mum]

No I have always thought that she had been grabbed and beaten in the past so I have been careful not to make a grab for her - she will always come when called unless there is something more enticing in the shape of a small boy - her absolute favourite thing. I will see how we go tomorrow.

[Arya]

OK we are back from the dog club where, as usual there were no problems - she was ecstatically happy to be there and kept bringing the ball back to me to throw - we left before she had had enough. Tomorrow we will try the garden.

Perry's Mum, it is excellent that your dog is interacting well with you at the dog club. Interacting with YOU rather than just the other dogs or the sheep, which was what I was getting at in the last mail LOL. If she isn't keen in the back yard and yet keen outside it certainly is a strange one. Let's know what happens in the back yard this time. It is a bit weird as it would usually be the other way around, good attention in back yard but wanting to interact with other things/dogs etc outside. Don't foret though, the toys need to belong to YOU. This is a big key in getting them to see you as the funmeister. How about trying starting afresh with new and different toys in the back yard? Just another thought

[Perry's Mum]

The only toy of interest to Perrry is a ball which can be thrown - everything else I have tried including kongs are just ignored. This morning I saw her doing the same thing with Erica the cleaning lady. A bit later when we went out to the garden for a cup of coffee and she was putting the ball down and snatching it back I just said I would not play with someone who cheated and then she changed her mind and left it to be thrown and we played for 30 minutes before I had to come back and do some work (which of course I am not doing because I am sitting here writing this). Perhaps she did just want to play a new game or perhaps now she is getting what she and I both regard as the normal amount of attention she is happier.

[Vickie]

Because Perry was very abused by her previous owner she has always cringed away from raised hands although she has never been hit by me and in fact gets lots of praise. She is not a dog who seeks cuddles from me although she will look for them from other people. I only ever get a cuddle at sheepdog school or if she comes to look after me during a thunderstorm. She sleeps in her own bed in another room. She is not strongly food motivated but previously if I called her she would come for a bit of cheese, but not any more. Perhaps she has decided that Brie is no longer her favourite. I am not aware of having stepped on her and she would let me know if I had. She has been kicked so often in the past that she keeps out of the way of feet.

Hi Perry's Mum,

Reading the above it now doesn't sound like anything major has happened but more a general progression of what she was already doing because of her past. I'm sorry I misunderstood your original post.

[Vickie]

Take her out of herding school until she sees you as more fun than any other thing, dog school, other dogs, whatever. It's the kindest way in the long run. She needs you as her rock and fun thing in life more than dog herding school. Then when you have got her right with you in a few weeks, return to dog herding school If dog herding school is higher value than you, that is a problem (not saying it is, it's just something for you to think about)

Actually I'm not sure I agree with the above. Personally I would be going way out of my way to do as much herding with her as I could. From what I have read before about her, it is what she lives for, as it is with most sheepdogs. I would never want my dogs to see me as "higher value" than working sheep, sure they need to do what I ask, but they live to work and that is as it should be. I would be using herding to let her know that you provide access to what matters most in the world. JMO, I may have it all wrong (again, LOL).

[Erny]

Perhaps she did just want to play a new game or perhaps now she is getting what she and I both regard as the normal amount of attention she is happier.

I suspect it was the former but she's realised you now won't participate unless it is on your terms. I also still suspect there was a bit of a 'power game' going on. Glad she's behaving closer to the 'norm' for you.

Edited November 12, 2007 by Erny

[Perry's Mum]

Thank you all for your help and advice - I will keep on taking her to sheepdog school as often as I can but they are not available every weekend here. In another few weeks I will be taking 3 months off and hopefully that will give us time to do lots of things together and to see if we can arrange some private sheepdog classes. At the very least we can get up at the crack of dawn each morning before it gets too hot and go down to the club to play ball.

[Mooper]

It sounds like you and Perry are making some great progress

Keep up the tough love. Don't fall for Perry's persuasive, glistening eyes!

Jack, as you know, regularly tries to push the boundaries. He's a bit slow at picking up on the "game over" concept if he doesn't accept my rules, but even he gets there in the end

[Perry's Mum]

Perry really knows how to turn on those big brown eyes and waggle her ears in a way I find very hard to resist. We are going outside to play ball now that it has cooled off a bit. It has been surprisingly hot here today - roll on winter.

[Arya]

Perry's Mum, have a look at some of K9s advice throughout this site. One thing I wouldn't be doing is letting anyone else play ball with her. You be the ball player - toy player. If she only likes ball try a ball on a string. You can put it further on a rope and drag it along the ground. You want the dog to be coming in to you all the time wherever possible. Don't throw too far away if she doesn't rocket back to you with it. But when others play ball with her it has the potential to diminish the bond you are building with her. Look, this is all advice from lots of people and ultimately you will know what works best with your dog and pick out what works best but just thought I'd throw this into the mix because I would never ever let anyone else play hose with my dog, or any other toy for that matter. I am queen of the good things. It's a heirarchy and bonding thing.

[Sarah L]

Perry's Mum, have a look at some of K9s advice throughout this site. One thing I wouldn't be doing is letting anyone else play ball with her. You be the ball player - toy player. If she only likes ball try a ball on a string. You can put it further on a rope and drag it along the ground. You want the dog to be coming in to you all the time wherever possible. Don't throw too far away if she doesn't rocket back to you with it. But when others play ball with her it has the potential to diminish the bond you are building with her. Look, this is all advice from lots of people and ultimately you will know what works best with your dog and pick out what works best but just thought I'd throw this into the mix because I would never ever let anyone else play hose with my dog, or any other toy for that matter. I am queen of the good things. It's a heirarchy and bonding thing.

What happens if you/anyone has to go away for any reason and you have never or will never let the dog play ball or games with anyone else. Have they to just sit in a box while you are gone? My dog and other very good trainers I know let their dogs play ball and games with other people it's never affected my/their "hierarchy" or "bonding thing". I am not trying to be rude but what you have written seems very black and white with no room for maneuver.

[Lablover]

We are going outside to play ball now that it has cooled off a bit. It has been surprisingly hot here today - roll on winter.

Apart from rare herding, playing ball at the obedience grounds or in the garden, where else do you mentally stimulate your dog?

I for one would never have believed dogs suffer depression, that is until a recent bout of kennel cough affected all my five labradors. As a result they were not allowed off our property. All my dogs are high drive, but one hid in a cupboard with what I call the sads/bored to tears.

Are you absolutely sure no health issues play a part. Joints? Has she always been a quiet type of dog? Dogs do not lie, and if they are not "quite" right, normally there is either a health issue lurking. That is of course if the dog is fit, heat may be affecting the dog also.

[Perry's Mum]

She gets a very long walk with a neighbour up and over a steep hill and back around the base (3 hours) a couple of times a week, she comes out with me when it is not too hot when I am going around town to see clients, herding is generally at least one full weekend a month, sometimes two. She plays with the children next door. I think she gets more mental and physical stimulation than most dogs I know. Her joints were checked by the vet at her recent check up and she seems fine. She was pretty happy today because we had a lot of visitors and they all played ball with her for a while and then one of her favourite people came for dinner. I live alone and don't have any family here so it is important that Perry will bond with others enough for them to come and look after her and exercise her if I need to go away for a few days. Perry is a very fit dog but she does have a double coat and is not too keen on hot weather and it was over 31 today.

Edited November 14, 2007 by Perry's Mum