Can Someone Please Explain

[Arya]

Okay, I have used and tried em all LOL. I like the infin8 better than regular black dog halti. however, in saying this I agree with Poodlefan and wouldn't use. I feel also that unless you are really skilled, a head collar is just a restraint mechanism and for most people, just restrains the dog and as soon as it's removed the dog reverts to its old behaviour. In saying this I am EXTREMELY SYMPATHETIC to your situation Daggles and agree with Erny - go back to the trainer and have a chat. Sadly, many trainers aren't flexible. I will state here that I would prefer a pinch collar any day over a head collar for a dog that pulls to that extent - problem quickly solved when used correctly and the dog LEARNS (please....don't all shoot me LOL!). BUT, I can see that a headcollar is of great benefit to some and if you can't hold on to your dog, hey, it will give you confidence to work in class until you can!!!!!

Really, I think the best for you Daggles might be a one-on-one with a sympathetic trainer who is open to all types of equipment, including head collars, to help your dog overcome the problem in a nice way. Like everyone, you want your dog to happily and willingly see you as the centre of attention and not want to go madly pulling away in class, and a one on one lesson or two might put you on the right path and be worth the money and help you enjoy your classes more. And when you get it right you'll be able to slip the 8 part of the infin8 and just use a flat collar :rolleyes: Let us know how you go.

[reddog21]

Why don'y you look at a prong collar. For someone your height and weight it would be perfect.

You probably won't be able to train with your club but you can talk to independent trainers about their use.

[Poodle wrangler]

How to say this nicely? Some dog trainers don't have good people skills, but that's not to say they're no good or what they have to say is incorrect.

Talk to the instructor and say what's on your mind.

[poodlefan]

Daggles:

Poodlefan, Drawreins on a horse I understand, I have never used them because I think it is a shortcut to training, a quick fix.

I guess if I look at it that way the infin8 is also just a quick fix, but I keep stressing that I dont want to use correction chain! Maybe I need to find a more positive place to train.

Why don't you want to use a correction chain? If you think a halti is "kinder" think again. A chain only works when you apply it. A halti creates pressure on the dog all the time, regardless of whether or not it is behaving.

I also think a martingale collar could be the go here.

[JulesP]

Did the trainer really tell you off or just give an opinion on your gear?

If you came to me and said that you wanted to compete in obedience then I would suggest different gear too. If you rocked up in the martingale collar at 16 weeks I would be telling you to take it off as puppies are trained in a flat collar at my club.

If the issue is that the dog is moving out of his sits/drops then I think you need to work on focus. By the time any piece of gear comes into play I think it is too late in that situation.

[Daggles]

The place that I did a 5 week basic puppy course sold me the martingale on day one.

[bordacollies4me]

I will do this but I know they want me to use a corrention chain instead & I dont want to.

I felt that being told to remove the infin8 without effiecient explaination on how I was to control Maverick in a situation were he doesnt listen to, was ineffect a way of being told off....sure felt like it

I think you are right, he (trainer) is so much stronger than me, he was a big burly bloke & I am 5 foot 3 & 51 kg.

If you don't want to use a check chain the don't and don't let anyone, make you feel intimidated enough to use one..

years ago i showed up at an obedience club with a gentle leader on my 6 month old pup, the trainer came up and told me i would need a check chain, i asked why does she think that... the reply was simply that the dog was too young to weara halti/gentle leader... lucilky for me i had enough experience in the use of the gentle leader and the check chain to explain that i would be continuing using the gentle leader and not a check chain... i also had my dog in a crate and played crate games, they also couldn't understand this.. and when i pulled out a tug toy for a play session they were quite confused as well... i think it comes back to some trainers know what they know and are comfortable with it and if approached with something new they may feel out of their comfort zone and would prefer all class members use what they know how to deal with...

[Daggles]

I will do this but I know they want me to use a corrention chain instead & I dont want to.

I felt that being told to remove the infin8 without effiecient explaination on how I was to control Maverick in a situation were he doesnt listen to, was ineffect a way of being told off....sure felt like it

I think you are right, he (trainer) is so much stronger than me, he was a big burly bloke & I am 5 foot 3 & 51 kg.

If you don't want to use a check chain the don't and don't let anyone, make you feel intimidated enough to use one..

years ago i showed up at an obedience club with a gentle leader on my 6 month old pup, the trainer came up and told me i would need a check chain, i asked why does she think that... the reply was simply that the dog was too young to weara halti/gentle leader... lucilky for me i had enough experience in the use of the gentle leader and the check chain to explain that i would be continuing using the gentle leader and not a check chain... i also had my dog in a crate and played crate games, they also couldn't understand this.. and when i pulled out a tug toy for a play session they were quite confused as well... i think it comes back to some trainers know what they know and are comfortable with it and if approached with something new they may feel out of their comfort zone and would prefer all class members use what they know how to deal with...

Thank you for Sharing your experience with me BC4me, I have decided to leave that club & train with a local club who do not use check chains. I think you are right, I am thinking that the 50 year odd old instructor was not familiar with the infin8 and may not have even recongise it and thought it was a gentle leader or halti, who knows but moving on is the best thing for my dog & I because I have lost respect for that trainer.

[BJean]

Thank you for Sharing your experience with me BC4me, I have decided to leave that club & train with a local club who do not use check chains. I think you are right, I am thinking that the 50 year odd old instructor was not familiar with the infin8 and may not have even recongise it and thought it was a gentle leader or halti, who knows but moving on is the best thing for my dog & I because I have lost respect for that trainer.

Really I think any club who only presrcibes one approach over the other is less than ideal.

However, you seemed to not want to use a check chain from the outset. Have you previously used a check chain with little success on your 6mo GSD before? i guess I am saying that what one *wants* for their dog, might not necesarily be the best thing for it

[Nekhbet]

Training with a correction chain and training with a head halter include different methods. Chains mean you give a correction - effectively and short, sharp - but if you did that with a head halter you would injure the dog. Halters require a different overall method. When you join a club you should be looking at their methods and principles. An instructor who has 15 dogs to teach cannot keep running to you through the class because you have to do things differently to everyone else its not fair.

Frankly for a lunging GSD he needs to learn to listen to you and action-consequence. You dont need a lot of strength with check chains if you use them properly so dont be intimidated by your own dog due to your stature. Size of the owner compared to size of the dog doesnt count, its your attitude that results in respect from the dog not you muscling your way with equiptment.

[Griffo]

lol just so you don't feel alone... i got kicked out of a german shepherd club for having a prong on my dog... i refused to use a check collar and they wouldn't allow me to train unless she was on a check collar. Idiots.

[Daggles]

Thank you for Sharing your experience with me BC4me, I have decided to leave that club & train with a local club who do not use check chains. I think you are right, I am thinking that the 50 year odd old instructor was not familiar with the infin8 and may not have even recongise it and thought it was a gentle leader or halti, who knows but moving on is the best thing for my dog & I because I have lost respect for that trainer.

Really I think any club who only presrcibes one approach over the other is less than ideal.

However, you seemed to not want to use a check chain from the outset. Have you previously used a check chain with little success on your 6mo GSD before? i guess I am saying that what one *wants* for their dog, might not necesarily be the best thing for it

I used one on my rotti with very little success IMO Check Chains are very '70's and I want to train in a more modern, positive way, I am not saying the infin8 is the long term answer but at least it given me instant control in situations that could be dangerous to Mav & maybe me if he was to pull away from me.

[Erny]

IMO Check Chains are very '70's and I want to train in a more modern, positive way ...

Modern doesn't necessarily equate to "what works best and is best for the dog" though Daggles. IMO, that should be your focus. Dog training equipment and methods should not be considered like the latest trend in colours and home decor.

If it weren't for the current Victorian ban on the use of prong collars, I'd be suggesting using one of those would probably be the better of anything ..... subject to seeing your dog and yourself work.

Edited November 6, 2007 by Erny