Can Someone Please Explain

[Daggles]

I want to know what the disadvantages of training in a Black Dog infin8?

And he benifits of training with a check chain?

I turned up to training using an infin8 and was told to remove it and it was suggested I use a check chain instead.

[KitKat]

Unfortunately much can depend on the trainers involved. The club i kinda train at used to suggest check chains years ago....now they suggest using a halti on every dog who isn't perfectly behaved from the start :rolleyes:

[Erny]

I turned up to training using an infin8 and was told to remove it and it was suggested I use a check chain instead.

Did you ask why?

Did the trainer explain why?

[weisnjac]

Whats a infin8?

[Erny]

Whats a infin8?

Its a style of Head-Collar. Made by Black Dog.

[Daggles]

I turned up to training using an infin8 and was told to remove it and it was suggested I use a check chain instead.

Did you ask why?

Did the trainer explain why?

Yes, he said because the dog wont learn the correct behaviour ie not to lunge at dogs just by using it, which I agree with but my dog is almost pulling me over and I am not fast enough to see the lunge coming before it happens. I feel it is to point were he could lunge & get away from me. so what am I supposed to do?

[KitKat]

*chuckles* This is what i was told to put my pup on a halti for...but he was only doing it to a slight degree :rolleyes:

The trainer is probably thinking the Infin8 is a normal Halti type rather then a graduated one which eases the dog into learning due to how it works...

Perhaps have a chat to the trainer before class and say that it's not a basic halti and take some info regarding how the Infin8 works as opposed to the halti and go from there?

[Erny]

Yes, he said because the dog wont learn the correct behaviour ie not to lunge at dogs just by using it ...

Maybe, maybe not. Much depends on how you use whichever training tool.

However, given that you are under direction of a trainer and that your trainer has had the advantage of observing your dog (where we have not), perhaps he/she saw the benefits over another tool other than the Infin8.

I don't really think it sounds like the trainer "told you off", but the trainer should be sympathetic to YOUR capabilities in handling your dog rather than what the trainer THINKS he/she could manage. There are ways and means of training and of weaning off (often it's the handler who needs to learn to be able to "wean off") certain tools before another tool which might end up being more effective, can be properly manipulated.

Seeing as you are under the direction of a trainer, return to your school with your concerns and ask them for more help given your current difficulties in holding onto your dog with anything less than a head-collar.

Let us know how you get on. :rolleyes:

Edited November 4, 2007 by Erny

[weisnjac]

Whats a infin8?

Its a style of Head-Collar. Made by Black Dog.

Thanks :rolleyes: I'm a bit behind the times.

I like KitKat's suggestion. Have a talk to him and explain you are more comfortable using it and why.

[RL1]

I want to know what the disadvantages of training in a Black Dog infin8?

And he benifits of training with a check chain?

I turned up to training using an infin8 and was told to remove it and it was suggested I use a check chain instead.

I think it's the trainers personal preference. I've been told by one to use choker chains, another said no, use a Halti and another said a halti is totally unsuitable. So figure that one out.

[poodlefan]

Yep, talk to your trainer and ask why he/she isn't keen on the Infin8.

The fact that I'm not keen on halti's is not news here but I would say that a dog that lunges would be about the last dog I'd fit one to. The Infin8 has even more leverage on the dog's upper neck than a traditional halti and could cause harm.

There is no one way to train a dog and that's why there's plenty of debate amongst dog trainers about methods and equipment.

[Erny]

The Infin8 has even more leverage on the dog's upper neck than a traditional halti and could cause harm.

Hi PF :rolleyes:

Would you mind explaining this to me? The Infin8's work from behind the dog's neck via the martingale style section of collar. You get less physical directional movement in this way, so I would have thought less leverage/strain/injury risk than the usual head collars?

Edited November 4, 2007 by Erny

[poodlefan]

The Infin8 has even more leverage on the dog's upper neck than a traditional halti and could cause harm.

Hi PF :rolleyes:

Would you mind explaining this to me? The Infin8's work from behind the dog's neck via the martingale style section of collar. You get less physical directional movement in this way, so I would have thought less leverage/strain/injury risk than the usual head collars?

Howdy Erny!!

The one I looked at had had a tape starting at the nose part and going down behind the collar. The action, although working behind the collar draws the nose section towards the neck, forcing the head/neck to flex where they meet. It's a similar leverage to draw rains on a horse and the pressure can be considerable.

In eliminate the potential for sideways pressure, they've now caused another kind.

If you try to touch your chin to chest between your clavicles you'll get a similar feeling.

[Erny]

Howdy Erny!!

The one I looked at had had a tape starting at the nose part and going down behind the collar. The action, although working behind the collar draws the nose section towards the neck, forcing the head/neck to flex where they meet. It's a similar leverage to draw rains on a horse and the pressure can be considerable.

In eliminate the potential for sideways pressure, they've now caused another kind. :rolleyes:

If you try to touch your chin to chest between your clavicles you'll get a similar feeling.

Aah .... I get you. I don't have the Infin8 in front of me but I think I can picture what you mean and how. Although I do wonder if mine is different - it merely has the nose band, which is attached to one side of the collar. The nose band loops over and under (or vice versa) the dog's muzzle in a figure 8 fashion and the end of the nose strap then attaches to the other side of the collar. Is that what you mean?

I haven't had cause to use the Infin8 on dogs, so hadn't recognised this as a possible 'side-affect'. I actually didn't realise it would have had that much leverage. Shall have another squizzy at it with that point of view in mind.

Thanks for the explanation.

Edited November 4, 2007 by Erny

[Daggles]

Yes, he said because the dog wont learn the correct behaviour ie not to lunge at dogs just by using it ...

Maybe, maybe not. Much depends on how you use whichever training tool.

However, given that you are under direction of a trainer and that your trainer has had the advantage of observing your dog (where we have not), perhaps he/she saw the benefits over another tool other than the Infin8.

I don't really think it sounds like the trainer "told you off", but the trainer should be sympathetic to YOUR capabilities in handling your dog rather than what the trainer THINKS he/she could manage. There are ways and means of training and of weaning off (often it's the handler who needs to learn to be able to "wean off") certain tools before another tool which might end up being more effective, can be properly manipulated.

Seeing as you are under the direction of a trainer, return to your school with your concerns and ask them for more help given your current difficulties in holding onto your dog with anything less than a head-collar.

Let us know how you get on.

I will do this but I know they want me to use a corrention chain instead & I dont want to.

I felt that being told to remove the infin8 without effiecient explaination on how I was to control Maverick in a situation were he doesnt listen to, was ineffect a way of being told off....sure felt like it :rolleyes:

I think you are right, he (trainer) is so much stronger than me, he was a big burly bloke & I am 5 foot 3 & 51 kg.

[Daggles]

Yep, talk to your trainer and ask why he/she isn't keen on the Infin8.

The fact that I'm not keen on halti's is not news here but I would say that a dog that lunges would be about the last dog I'd fit one to. The Infin8 has even more leverage on the dog's upper neck than a traditional halti and could cause harm.

There is no one way to train a dog and that's why there's plenty of debate amongst dog trainers about methods and equipment.

He stopped lunging totally with the infin8, his attention was back on to me but I have only used if for 1/2 an hour really.

I am very open to understanding why you/anyone thing they are bad/wrong for training. I am happy not to use it but I dont want to use a chain.

[Daggles]

The Infin8 has even more leverage on the dog's upper neck than a traditional halti and could cause harm.

Hi PF :rolleyes:

Would you mind explaining this to me? The Infin8's work from behind the dog's neck via the martingale style section of collar. You get less physical directional movement in this way, so I would have thought less leverage/strain/injury risk than the usual head collars?

Howdy Erny!!

The one I looked at had had a tape starting at the nose part and going down behind the collar. The action, although working behind the collar draws the nose section towards the neck, forcing the head/neck to flex where they meet. It's a similar leverage to draw rains on a horse and the pressure can be considerable.

In eliminate the potential for sideways pressure, they've now caused another kind.

If you try to touch your chin to chest between your clavicles you'll get a similar feeling.

Poodlefan, Drawreins on a horse I understand, I have never used them because I think it is a shortcut to training, a quick fix.

I guess if I look at it that way the infin8 is also just a quick fix, but I keep stressing that I dont want to use correction chain! Maybe I need to find a more positive place to train.

[huski]

I guess if I look at it that way the infin8 is also just a quick fix, but I keep stressing that I dont want to use correction chain! Maybe I need to find a more positive place to train.

What about a martingale style collar?

http://www.blackdog.net.au/index.php

http://www.k9force.net/index.html?row2col2=mart.html

[J...]

I second the martingale - I was never comfortable using a check chain so got one of the martingales from K9 force. :rolleyes:

[Daggles]

I second the martingale - I was never comfortable using a check chain so got one of the martingales from K9 force. :rolleyes:

Thanks but I have been using a martingale on him since he was 16 weeks old, it is effective for teacxhing social walking & heeling but does nothing for the sudden lunging that 9 times out of 10 happens from a sit or a drop.