Title Changed, Molly The Labrador's Thread.

[sheree_e4]

One other question Molly has not yet had any bones. Do you think if i introduced a bone now, the food aggressiveness would increase, or would it give her something to do for an hour or so ??

I think it would increase the behaviour,so I would not give her one personally,but its totally up to you.

ETA if you decide to give her a bone put her outside or somewhere that your daughter cannot get to her - not the play pen if your daughter will be able to reach in.

Edited November 3, 2007 by sheree_e4

[huski]

Maybe try some steamed/boiled chicken? That's what I use for training.

[littlelabrador]

yeah, i was thinking definitely outside for the bone. I said yesterday too, that the labs we had as kids, never growled around food, but i was thinking about this last night, and i do remember they did, and it was only with bones ! If you came near when they had their new bone (old ones didnt get the reaction) you got growled at.

So maybe i will give the bone a miss for now then. Will wait until we have better control of her. The tot thing and all. Ok might buy the liver treats. The ones i saw were just what looked like pieces of dried up strap looking stuff ?

At puppy preschool we were shown to teach them to 'sit' by placing the treat near their nose and then moving it back over their head and they naturally sat. Then to get them to drop, to put it near the nose but then lower it to the floor and say 'drop'. I have been doing this for days and Molly doesnt seem to get 'drop' at all. She will sit with just the word, but when i try to move the treat down and say 'drop' she just looks at me like im loony or something. Any suggestions ?

Sheree, the dry food she is on, well her only food really, is Hills Prescription I/D. Its not really for puppies either, but what we have to use for now. I do sometimes worry that those couple weeks without adequate nutrition, well, chicken and rice isnt adequate, no calcium for a start, etc, have done something to her.

[Monah]

Hi, I'd definately leave off the bones too, just in case she hid it somewhere outside etc. and it could become a big problem when you least expect it. Also, I've seen on some of the doggy programs, when they have a problem teaching drop, they sit on the floor with legs bent, pup on one side, and lure the pup under their legs with a treat. The pup has to end up on it's tummy under your legs, once they get the hang of this and realise what drop means, they seem to be OK. You'd have to be quick with the reward so she understands what she is being praised for.xxxxx

[Pockets]

yeah, i was thinking definitely outside for the bone. I said yesterday too, that the labs we had as kids, never growled around food, but i was thinking about this last night, and i do remember they did, and it was only with bones ! If you came near when they had their new bone (old ones didnt get the reaction) you got growled at.

So maybe i will give the bone a miss for now then. Will wait until we have better control of her. The tot thing and all. Ok might buy the liver treats. The ones i saw were just what looked like pieces of dried up strap looking stuff ?

At puppy preschool we were shown to teach them to 'sit' by placing the treat near their nose and then moving it back over their head and they naturally sat. Then to get them to drop, to put it near the nose but then lower it to the floor and say 'drop'. I have been doing this for days and Molly doesnt seem to get 'drop' at all. She will sit with just the word, but when i try to move the treat down and say 'drop' she just looks at me like im loony or something. Any suggestions ?

Sheree, the dry food she is on, well her only food really, is Hills Prescription I/D. Its not really for puppies either, but what we have to use for now. I do sometimes worry that those couple weeks without adequate nutrition, well, chicken and rice isnt adequate, no calcium for a start, etc, have done something to her.

If she is not fllowing the food down and out towards you, try moving the food under her tummy along the floor instead, if she tries to get up you may need to keep your hand gently on her bottom, so she doesnt get the erge to stand up...

If this fails to teach her the basics of what you want her to do, when saying drop, lift both her front legs and place them gently in the drop position and reward straight away!

Another way to do it using the method you are currently using with treats is to start from her nose and lower the food directly to the floor, if you are in front of the dog make sure you are not moving the treat towards you at the same time as this will entice her to get up, always make sure you take the treat directly and slowly down to the floor, if she is not following you can gently put your hand on the puppys back and very gently push down as you take the treat down and say "Drop" then reward straight away..

Key to training puppy's is to make the sessions short and sweet (otherwise puppies get bored) I would suggest no more than 5 minutes for each session...

[gillbear]

What a small world it is, I actually work with Molly's dad occasionally.

Looks like I might be getting some puppy cuddles some time soon

P.s Hellcheek!!!!

[4leggedvariety]

You may also want to try to break up the "Drop" into smaller steps instead of aiming for the whole drop in one go. With some dogs you may not need to do that, some may need it, just require a bit of patience. Reward head down, reward further head down, and remember to move your lure hand very slowly straight down to the ground. Once you have her head down, then slowly bring your hand slightly forward a little bit and wait for one of her front legs to move forward. If that happens, reward that and progress to slowly move your hand slowly forward until her chest touches the ground.

Then BINGO, got it, mark the behaviour & reward. Do not worry too much about the verbal command as yet because language does not mean anything at this stage. Once you can get the dog reliably following your hand down, then pair it with the command so correct assocaition of command & behaviour can take place.

Once the dog gets rewarded a few times in the "Drop"position, they quickly get the hang of it.

As for training treats, you may want to experiment with similar ingredients that the Hills prescription diet is made of, may be in the raw form, in very small doses to start off with. Boiled chicken is uaually quite safe but not sure.

My recent addition to my family, a Mastiff x Dane , also had a very sensitive stomach as I was told by the previous owner. She told me definitely no bones. He had been on Hills Sensitive Stomach all his life (4 years). I feed my other 3 dogs a raw meaty bone diet (BARF, i am sure there are threads about that somewhere). I just very gradually add raw meaty bones to his diet, starting off with 1 or 2 chicken necks mixed with all the dry food. Bit by bit, add other stuff like beef, chicken, lamb mince with veg, cottage cheese, yoghurt & whatever the BARF diet recommends. He is doing very well on that.

[ricey]

Littlelab:

Has anyone here used Barkbusters ?? They have been recommended, and they do come to your house, which is what i would like, so the trainer can see how she behaves here, as it isnt the same as at puppy school.

Any one can do a six week course with Barkbusters and buy a franchise. You want someone with some serious experience and Barkbusters standards are highly variable. I'd not let a BB trainer near my dogs.

Yeah, where I live, Bark Busters are colloquially known as Bank Busters . Shit load of money spent, for a shit result . Just about any reputable dog trainer will come to your house and observe how your dog behaves in its home environment. I'm not about to call Bark Busters reputable though; they are the "Amway" method of dog training

This pup sounds like a high drive pup that hasn't had its boundaries explained sufficiently. Sounds like a potentially lovely dog. Drop her in to play with Hobbes who'll teach her some manners.

ricey

[littlelabrador]

Touch wood, but she has actually been better behaved the last 24 hrs. Must be the extra plays, and last night i gave her a puppy kong with some of her puppy kibble inside it, to keep her doing something else when we were watching tv. She went nuts over that, got all of it out, then played with it for a while, i guess because it still had the food scent in it, then went to sleep. She only jumped up on hubby twice, and both times got down when he growled 'no' at her. Lets hope it continues !

[4leggedvariety]

Looks like you are making progress. I think as long as the whole family is consistent, little Molly will learn what is or is not acceptable very quickly. It is so hard to be kind & firm . isn't it?

[littlelabrador]

Not so hard for me, as i have to discipline my daughter too. Hubby is the non disciplinarian and has a lot of difficulty lowering his tone of voice and sounding serious.

Also, forgot to mention, we have 2 cats, who are none too pleased at Molly's presence. One goes nowhere near her, the other gets within a couple metres, and Molly usually hangs back at that distance. But Saturday night, and again this morning, decided to chase the cat and get too close and got swiped twice. How long does it take them to learn so they dont get swiped, it must have hurt as she yelped both times.

But yes, she is behaving better.

[persephone]

;)

That's good to hear..she will be happier when she knows her boundaries .

The cats will sort her out..may take a few swipes if she is persistent.

[4leggedvariety]

Just remember to not go overboard with the growling business, Have praise & positives too when she is behaving as you want, just a balancing act.

Cats are the best teachers most of the time, consistent and immediate, mean what they say. Won't take Molly long to catch on. If she is persistent, a few more swipes and a few more yelps.. Do not rescue her, let her figure it out and she will learn self control & respect for the cat.

Continue with the good work, littlelab.

BTW, may I ask what kennel (breeder) you got Molly from? Have you heard from them since you let them know you have a problem?

[littlelabrador]

Molly came from Doribank Labradors at Raymond Tce, they are in the puppy listings on DOL, thats how we found them. Her mother is a Doribank dog and her father is a Driftway. Sorry, i know i havent used the proper terminology there, dog, etc, im not up with all of that. And no, havent heard a word from them since i let them know about our behaviour issues. They did know she was unwell the first few weeks.

[4leggedvariety]

I guess no more puppies from them ever, yeh?

[littlelabrador]

I guess. It's only been a few days, maybe they are away and not checking emails. They do take a while to respond usually. They had a lot of puppies, 3 litters at once. Makes me wonder what happens to the puppies that do not sell (and i dont want to know the answer if its horrible).

anyway, i was just checking out the Driftway dog that fathered Molly, and he is quite impressive ! Hes only 2.5 years old though, is that young to be a father ? Or do they always breed from dogs that age ? Hes got quite a few awards. His name is Special Envoy, he's on the driftway site. The mum, the doribank one, i dont know much about. She is a smallish labrador, which is why we picked from that litter, and seemed very calm and sweet.

[Jed]

I'm pleased you are having some success with her. Remember, she wants to be good, but she needs you to tell her how to be good. Continue with the quiet people times too, lots of gentle praise and stroking - no high squeaky voices. The more success you have, the more willing she will be, and the more confident she will be. win win situation!! :rolleyes:

Some people don't check their e-mails very often. The owner of the stud dog I used last time is a shocker - I don't have a problem, but she wants to see the pups, and I sent her photos -- no response!! I'll bet she hasn't even looked. So don't stress too much.

2.5 years is a good age for a stud dog, no dramas there, and she is well bred.

I think your pup is probably really smart, and because she was sick and pampered, she is now beginning the difficult teenage time, and is taking advantage of you!! You just need to take over. When you are in control, you will be amazed at how content she is - a dog actually finds it a bit stressful to be in control - too much responsibility!!

Apart from my dog (cocker) of course - his function is to control the household, maintain the behaviours of the other dogs, check that I am eating healthily, sleeping enough, waking early, that all visitors meet his high standards, and that any purchases are of the quality he expects.

It's a big job, but someone has to do it.

Retrain him to know his place you say? He KNOWS his place - I am a mere vassal of his will!! But he doesn't jump on me and I can do whatever I like with his food without dramas.

[littlelabrador]

She's still growling around the food bowl. I'm wondering if its also partly because the breeder only uses one bowl. Might make it hard for so many puppies to get their fair share. I just say this because if i fill the puppy kong with food, and let her play with it, she love it, but i can pick it up and move it, or put more in it, etc, without any problem. It just seems to be the feeding bowl thats a problem.

[The Spotted Devil]

Perhaps, if you're only feeding biscuits (sorry - haven't had a chance to read the full thread) you could remove the bowl completely and just scatter the food on the floor. Or.....get a 'treat ball' - my pup just loves his buster cube and treat ball - food time = play time

[shellbyville]

Hi littlelabrador, congratulations on your new puppy. I have been reading this topic with interest, as I have labs as well. You have been given lots of really good advice. My advice would be sift through and find what works for you and your puppy, but whatever you do, be consistent with your training with the puppy.

I have had puppies do everything yours does except the food aggression. The pups I have raised and bred have all been really good and will share their food with anyone!! Maybe being ill has caused this problem. I would feed away from anyone else and just keep praising her and rewarding any good behaviour with treats, make sure she doesn't snatch the treats from your hand, but gently take it. It takes time and a few 'uh uh's' but she will get the idea.

My only advice with the food aggression is when you feed her make her sit and wait and not eat until you give the ok, then just stand beside her and praise her vocally telling her she is a good girl. Each time get a little closer to the bowl, always praising her, if she growls walk away. Try again next time, maybe over time she will be comfortable and let you touch her food. Something is obviously bothering her over the food thing, so take things slowly! But always feed her away from all other distractions, feed her where she is totally on her own, no kids, no cats, so she doesn't feel threatened or her food is threatened etc and maybe just you stay with her and praise her while she is eating and not growling!

Nipping at your daughter is pretty typical behaviour but can be dangerous, so always supervise and let puppy know vocally (never hit) that the behaviour is unacceptable and if it persists take puppy away for a time out.

I really hope you persist, labs are beautiful dogs and if you are consistent and remember any time you spend with puppy is training time, even just playing! You will have a lovely member of your family in time. It can be frustrating. There is also lots of good advice online and I do agree if you don't seem to be making any ground get some professional help, but I think you can overcome this.