Rom Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Does that explain things briefly Rom? Sure does...thankyou Erny: And IMO this is the key .... many people stay on a 'static' level correction and somehow expect a change in behaviour. And this helps too. Even though the same message has been given above, a change of words and angle help it hit home.....I'm not slow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 R: Even though the same message has been given above, a change of words and angle help it hit home.....I'm not slow K9: well your comp scores prove your not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 (edited) K9: As per usual, I have an answer for that... And just as well ..... as without additional input continued learning ceases ..... But amongst other things, I wish I could learn more your 'art' of explanations ............................ And you're right - my post was made having my own imaginary 'fido' in mind. In case it was mis-understood, I don't run to every person telling them they must have a prong-collar on their dog. It does depend on dog/handler combo as to what is best. Edited November 1, 2007 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 K9: As per usual, I have an answer for that... And just as well ..... as without additional input continued learning ceases ..... But amongst other things, I wish I could learn more your 'art' of explanations ............................ And you're right - my post was made having my own imaginary 'fido' in mind. In case it was mis-understood, I don't run to every person telling them they must have a prong-collar on their dog. It does depend on dog/handler combo as to what is best. K9: are you calling me an "artist"? rofl.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 K9: & keep in mind that many handlers need to "prepare themselves" to deliver a correction via say a check chain as it can require so much force with some dogs. Dog picks up on the preparation & as checks, martingales etc all apply the correction to muscle tissue, it can often render the correction useless. The prong works on skin not muscle.Also too some people need to use such a high level of force to correct their dog effectively, this raises adrenalin, frustration & sometimes anger in the trainer, which clouds judgement, destroys timing & breaks down the bond between the dog & handler... Giving them a more effective tool, teaching them how to read their dog & time corrections & improving the Alpha Status of the hanlder works very well for me... I'm also understanding this better the more practical experience I get. I was helping a lady with a leash puller/lunger and she was good at applying lots of force to the correction, but her timing was shyte, the force of her corrections weren't actually pulling the dog of its feet, but were enough to change the balance of the dog and sometimes he lost his footing. Same tool, less force, more speed and the dog responded nicely, improved focus and wagging tail the dog even seemed more relaxed...less tense somehow. The amount of force I was applying in the correction made around about the same amount of connection with the dogs neck as tapping your forefinger on the back of your hand hard enough to make a slapping sound, but the correction didn't change the dogs balance at all, yet he chose to comply. But he continually resisted forceful corrections which I reckon set him up for a greater chance of injury. IMH(and greenhorn)O, this dog and handler combination were prime candidates for the prong, but since it was at an ANKC affiliate club, I couldn't recommend it. It seems that some see the speed of the correction as being more violent than the force? I've actually had people put their hand between the collar and the dogs neck to feel the level of correction that I'm using for themselves and yet they still seem to resist it...could be either because of the lack of physical ability to apply a correction at that speed or that they can't read the intentions of the dog, but they seem more comfortable dragging the dog or having the dog drag them than they do with the alternative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 K9: are you calling me an "artist"? rofl.. Artist.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 R: I'm also understanding this better the more practical experience I get. I was helping a lady with a leash puller/lunger and she was good at applying lots of force to the correction, but her timing was shyte, the force of her corrections weren't actually pulling the dog of its feet, but were enough to change the balance of the dog and sometimes he lost his footing. Same tool, less force, more speed and the dog responded nicely, improved focus and wagging tail the dog even seemed more relaxed...less tense somehow. The amount of force I was applying in the correction made around about the same amount of connection with the dogs neck as tapping your forefinger on the back of your hand hard enough to make a slapping sound, but the correction didn't change the dogs balance at all, yet he chose to comply. K9: I design my training programs off some rules I believe in, one is that "the animal learns best when it offers the behaviour". I feel that correcting the dog all the way to you is against this rule, but when the dog can choose to not pull on he leash it becomes more balanced, or relaxed as you say... R: It seems that some see the speed of the correction as being more violent than the force? I've actually had people put their hand between the collar and the dogs neck to feel the level of correction that I'm using for themselves and yet they still seem to resist it...could be either because of the lack of physical ability to apply a correction at that speed or that they can't read the intentions of the dog, but they seem more comfortable dragging the dog or having the dog drag them than they do with the alternative? K9: & being dragged is teaching the dog your not the Alpha... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 R: Even though the same message has been given above, a change of words and angle help it hit home.....I'm not slow K9: well your comp scores prove your not! Yeah, but don't forget that my dog is better than I am...I'm the weak link in the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 R: Even though the same message has been given above, a change of words and angle help it hit home.....I'm not slow K9: well your comp scores prove your not! Yeah, but don't forget that my dog is better than I am...I'm the weak link in the team K9: someone taught your dog.... weak link :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 (edited) R: Even though the same message has been given above, a change of words and angle help it hit home.....I'm not slow K9: well your comp scores prove your not! Yeah, but don't forget that my dog is better than I am...I'm the weak link in the team :D K9: someone taught your dog.... weak link Yeah, that would be the same clutz that still manages to confuse her and knock her out of drive and she still manages to pull off the performance ETA: Who was it that indicated that I need more training than my dog does? Edited November 1, 2007 by Rom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 R: Yeah, that would be the same clutz that still manages to confuse her and knock her out of drive and she still manages to pull off the performance K9: with near perfect scores.. Mistakes are the building blocks to success (copywrite k9 force!) ETA: Who was it that indicated that I need more training than my dog does? K9: probably me, but I say that about everyone... "I rehabilitate people, I train dogs" rofl... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitKat Posted November 29, 2007 Author Share Posted November 29, 2007 Just bumping to say Guy seems to have the specials going again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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