KitKat Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 A little while ago i bought a good quality prong collar and it's great - it's the type with the quick release. Pic as follows But i recently saw a pic of a prong that i've not seen before... Any advice on this type collar? Just wondering how the metal clip would hold up? Anyone used one of these types before? In the near future when i have money again i'd like to get another good quality prong (one for each dog then) - just deciding what i should go for...lol - The pics are from this site - whome i've bought from before - they also do the prong covers which are a pretty cool idea! Mind you it's hard to tell either if my dogs are wearing prongs due to their coats...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Haven't seen this style of "quick release" before. But my comfort zone rests with Herm Springer. I don't trust much else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitKat Posted October 29, 2007 Author Share Posted October 29, 2007 I know the first one i got is a HS...not 100% sure the nylon one is...tho it's listed under the HS collars tab on the site... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Oh .... and as many people turn their minds to prong-collars only because they have an issue of some sort with their dogs (commonly, but not always, pulling/lunging on the lead), I much prefer the standard "link-apart" release rather than any form of "quick release" mechanism. Only for safety reasons, because I know what a pain the it can be at times to release link from link - especially when the collar is new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Haven't seen this style of "quick release" before. But my comfort zone rests with Herm Springer. I don't trust much else. I am the same. Having said that, Guy from fordogtrainers normally has fairly reasonable equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitKat Posted October 29, 2007 Author Share Posted October 29, 2007 Hehe...the standard ones are great :D And if i walk both dogs on prongs my eldest wears the standard (not particularly good quality one tho) as i can put the collar on him without him moving a muscle. However my youngest however is a wriggle-butt as soon as he hears the collars move The quick release is only for my convenience But he's not a big puller/lunger anyway these days - on or off the prong :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitKat Posted October 29, 2007 Author Share Posted October 29, 2007 Having said that, Guy from fordogtrainers normally has fairly reasonable equipment. I love the gear i've bought from ForDogTrainers...lol...it's all been great quality and Guy is very helpful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 However my youngest however is a wriggle-butt as soon as he hears the collars move Yep - it is somewhat more awkward with the "wiggle-butt" types - especially "wiggle-butt" AND "hairy" ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitKat Posted October 29, 2007 Author Share Posted October 29, 2007 Yep - it is somewhat more awkward with the "wiggle-butt" types - especially "wiggle-butt" AND "hairy" ones. And add 'walking at night' and 'black coat' to the wriggly and hairy...well...you get the picture! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushaka Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 (edited) Erny can u tell me y u wld use the prong? I am trying to understand its use? Ive never used one and wonder wat the benefits are in training. What more can it do that the martingale etc? ETA- where do u get these collars? Edited October 29, 2007 by Lewis & Lyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 (edited) Erny can u tell me y u wld use the prong? ...- wat the benefits are in training. What more can it do that the martingale etc?ETA- where do u get these collars? The prong-collar, as the name suggests, comprises a series of large metal links with "prong" like protusions. These prongs are not designed to dig into the dog's neck (although this is the first impression many get when they hear about and see them). In fact, each prong is bent so that when the 'check' is applied, they squeeze together - sideways rather than inwards - and this causes a pinch to the dog's skin on its neck. One of the advantages over any of the other available collars is that it can be specifically placed to span the area of the windpipe. All other collars (including the ordinary flat collar) cause direct pressure on the dog's windpipe. My own theory on why the prong-collar works relates to the skin having many sensitive pain-receptors. Logical when you think that the body would want to be able to recognise pain quickly, to best avoid serious harm at a deeper level (eg. to muscle; skeleton). Consequently I expect this is why the response to the check made by a prong-collar is more immediate and lasting, yet with far less risk of harm being caused than often is by other means. Naturally, a clear message to the dog makes it easier for it to learn. With the desired response, a window of opportunity appears for handlers to then appropriately praise/reward the dog for the desired behaviour. There is also another spoken theory (not certain that it is scientifically proven) and that is that the prongs (which, by the way, are NOT sharp and many prong-collars sold now-a-days .... in other states come with rubber tips on them) mimic a bitch's teeth around a pup's neck when they are carried or when the subordinate pup is sometimes put in its place by a higher ranking pack member. L & L ... I presume you have seen a picture of a prong? I have written so much on them of late I know I have put up links but can't recall in which threads. I think this one. If you have a dog who is already light on the lead and responsive to commands etc. etc. a prong-collar may not be required. Given how expensive they are I don't advocate to all and sundry that they should have one when they are having no difficulties with the tool they are using and when training is progressing well. In fact, given that the use of the prong-collar is banned in Victoria, I don't advocate them for use in this State at all. : But 'tis such a pity, as time over I see many a dog with one issue or another (some simply sheer excitement) that sees them lunging out to the end of their lead. I see corrections that are applied via alternative training devices to no effect. And I cringe because I imagine a bruised if not damaged neck muscle and perhaps mal-aligned vertibrae as a result. I also see a dog whose sensitivity to these alternative training tools rating a big fat zero and so the dog continues its behaviour. As a result, I see a dog who is precluded from much of the praise and reward it otherwise would deserve. In other issues, I see a dog that is so difficult to handle that the owner becomes frustrated - both at the dog and their own inability to handle the uncontrollable situation. I see an owner who loves their dog dearly, but for whom exercising and training their dog is at the opposite spectrum of "joy". Of course it is NEVER only about the equipment we chose to use .... it's also a good part about the methodology we use in between times which actually plays a large part in training our dogs. But it is (or, for Victoria, would be) great to be able to give owners the ability to control an otherwise uncontrollable dog, so that they may then partake on the journey of learning ... together. Check out K9 Force's website under 'product sales'. Hope this answers your questions L&L. I am brain weary tonight and not even sure how this will read. I expect I'll look at it tomorrow with a fresh mind and perhaps elect to re-phrase what I am endeavouring to explain here (or add to it :D). Erny now hops off soap box and prepares to retire to bed ...... :D Edited October 29, 2007 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushaka Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 (edited) Thanx Erny,yes i checked out some piccies. I think Indie is getting the hang of things just fine with the martingale collars,however she does LUNGE at other dogs ,and then the martingale becomes a Noose so to speak! (Indie doesnt lunge to attack,she lunges to greet) I can walk her 95% successfully with a normal collar now,but feel for "high dog traffic areas" a prong might be called for. Indie is already in excess of 18kg at 5mths so she is already very strong,& with her Amstaff staffy tenacity...well,u can imagine!! Are the legal to use in NSW? How old should a dog be? ETA- thanx Erny for your lengthy and as always educated and helpful advice! Edited October 29, 2007 by Lewis & Lyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Are the legal to use in NSW? Yes - I believe Victoria is the only State which has sanctioned a complete ban on their use. How old should a dog be? Good question. I've never had occasion to be consulted for their use on any dog under 6 months of age (and then the ban came in so diversity of further learning of them kind of came to a halt) so I've not had to consider this to any great length. Generally speaking, I would suggest about 6 months and upwards but I'm not sure of the opinion of others such as K9 Force on this. K9Force? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 remember you cannot buy prong collars from overseas unless you have an import licence for them. I need to make another order from FDT I think Guy is missing my orders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Do it now Nekhbet while Guy has 15% off till tomorrow night . I read your review on Guys site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitKat Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 It's not fair...every time the 15% off comes thru i have no money...lol. Mind you it's a great time to buy considering the Aussie dollar at the moment!!! Hmm...i wonder if he does layby... Just kidding of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 K9: I have tested this type of collar & was not a fan, we had 20 on test & decided they werent for us.. No need to re invent the wheel so to speak... There is a rule of thumb that says that corrections are a no no on a pup under 6 months.. I feel personally that as long as you are aware of fear periods & no corrections in those periods, your ok.. I would feel a correction or two before six months is better than an out of control 6 month old dog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushaka Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Thanx Erny and K9 for ur input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I think Guy works it out so its when people have the least amount of money to spend when he puts his specials on . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitKat Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 Hehehe...i think i'm going to have to squirrel away some money and lay in wait for the next special...and hope it's while the dollar is still up! Knowing my luck when i decide to order it will plummit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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