bridgie_cat Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Heya guys! Soooo... "ring wise" dogs - im not a fan of the theory that they just "know" they are in the ring etc - but would like to look at the other causes of poor ring performance compared to training... I have some factors in mind, but would rather that others come forward with what they have found to be most common or personal experiences with this and of course what changes/training can be done to overcome it! Bridget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Look to the other end of the lead. Show me a "ringwise" dog and I'll show you a training issue. A dog that fails to perform in the ring can be reacting to a nervous handler (some people do wonderful undertaker impressions in there) or has learned that there are no consequences for lower performance during trials or is anticipating negative consequences for failing to perform or.. ... well a range of issues. Have you got a particular dog/situation in mind?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 I am in two minds about this toipic, I honestly think that dogs don't know the difference but we change our behaviour and that is different and puts our dogs off. I think it is a good training investment to get your dog used to all aspects of the ring and build heaps of drive so they can cope when we are stressed and nervous. I heavily reward removal of the lead. The ring ropes A person walking around them like the judge. Have someone you respect video and call for you to simulate ring nerves while heavily rewarding the dog. Video and watch the diference between training and trialling, try to make everything the same. When you watch it, be critical of the differences. Try to have a routine before heelwork so the dog knows and gets excited to work and knows the cues to recieve reward. That's all I can think of now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridgie_cat Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 (edited) PF - absolutely agree - "ring wise" is just another word for training issue! ok... I will give you the scenario... although this is onle one case and I have a fair idea of what we could try to fix it... would be interested in other examples that are fixed through training rather than through the handler (yup, most probs are caused by a nervous handler - but would like to hear of other causes!) Rather nervous sheltie, trained using a clicker and food - does beautiful, fast, independent work in training. In the agility ring - she is slow, unsure, sniffs, watches the judge... The handler is nervous in the ring and has a tendency to babysit obstacles (imo - ok, going for accuracy with limited trialling oportunity - but seems likely to be making the dog less confident - wouldnt be an issue with another dog - but this one is already a bit nervous)... there are a few options here - the judge is a small issue - she is getting better with this and I think if she was "switched on" as she is in training she wouldnt even notice him... The food is on a variable sched and hidden in a pocket... but still on the person - perhaps a factor. I dont feel this dog must be bribed so much - ie doesnt wait for food to be presented before attempting obstacles... but she does "turn on" when the clicker comes out... so certainly appears to be an association between the clicker and working. IMO - method of reinforcement must be changed to suit a trialling situation - ie food on the side and the dog works to get either a release word that means "ok - go get your food!" OR dog learns to work and then follow handler to the side for a reward! Bridget ETA - JMO - please feel free to suggest alternatives/additions to this that you think could help the less confident/focused dog... Edited October 23, 2007 by bridgie_cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 I think most "poor ring performers" simply have issues with focus. Strange place and dogs, people etc. A trial is a much less formal place to be during the lead up in many ways, compared to the normal dog club routine. Most dogs with sound personalitys will adjust to the nervous handler. Many new triallers blame nerves, but experience will eventually teach them to look harder at their training methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridgie_cat Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 another scenario: (another sheltie - but an outgoing one) dog is again great in training, handler has beautiful signals/maneuvers in the ring - is she nervous?? im not sure - couldnt tell from her handling so dont think it is a factor... trained using food and very occasionally toys - but method of reinforcement seems to be varied a bit more than the first scenario. In the ring this dog occasionally does very nice runs - but went through a period of stopping and peeing on jumps at every trial (including at the home ground!), and often goes v slow and must be dragged around the course... sometimes sniffing, othertimes just not running! Bridget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridgie_cat Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 nerves on their own ok - but I think that nerves are often the cause of late signals and a general fall in the performance of the handler - which translates to how clear the messages are being given to the dog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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