Fear/flight Drive

[Arya]

Hi all!!! Well, am in the middle of doing some research into fearful behaviours to help my girl in the ring. Think I've hit upon something and wondering others' opinions on 'Fear Drive'. Well, I always thought fear was divided into fight or flight and then, there is a third when neither can be done. The old rabbit frozen in the spotlight behaviour. I am working on a theory that a dog when in a fearful situation where they cannot or know they should not run away such as in the ring, might perform this behaviour, thus freezing and forgetting their own name etc. This happens to my girl all the time. Goes from intelligent to brains flying out ears LOL.

Now as K9 has taught us, you can't be in prey drive and fearful at the same time. BUT, what about if 'flight drive' for want of a better phrase could be stimulated by the same actions that stimulate predatory drive. EG hand and foot movement - fast movement. Reason for this is after a year of struggling thru sixteen trials I had a breakthrough on the weekend. Managed to get through the heeling workout in the ring that my dog has consistently failed on to the point where I believe she is now in a state of learned helplessness about it - managed to get thru the workout by doing it basically in continuous slow pace (should have seen our SLOW pace whne the judge asked for it, it was almost a stop! Judge must have thought we were at a funeral!). When returned to more normal pace for the fast pacethe dog almost lost it again. The pace is the trigger. Seems to be the trigger for 'flight drive' and that is the end of the exercise for us as she freezes, being unable to flee. In training where she feels safe we walk at a very brisk pace normally. Brisker than most. Puts her in prey drive.

Do others understand what I am on about? (Sounds crazy, I know!!!)

So - I am now trying to do some further research into this. Does anyone have any info or experience in this and if so, can you please point me in the right direction? I feel I am definitely now on an up and up path with my dog.

Incidentally (brag), we got full marks for stand for exam, full marks for recall and would have gone great in the stays but... my girl got an attack of the itches in the sit stay after sitting on some teeny tiny ants before we went in the ring AAAAGH!!! Would have been respectable 87 out of 100.

But the problem solving in the heeling is what I am really concerned about at the moment. Don't have trouble with other excercises as I've found little tricks to fix them.

Any thoughts anyone?

AND by the way, huge thanks to Ptolomy for those start post games suggestions as they definitely helped as well

[Rom]

Oooh, start post games! I'd be interested in those. Is there a linky here?

At our last trial as we were on the way up to the start post I stepped on my dogs foot, she yelped and swung away from me and as she did, she smacked into the start post. So now start posts bite and we don't want to go anywhere near them

We were lucky though, we still managed to qualify and come 4th. The worst was on the heel pattern as we were heading back toward the start post to do the figure of 8 and during the fig or 8 according to onlookers.

[prodigybxr]

What kind of nerve does she have in everyday life- outside of Obedience?

[Arya]

What kind of nerve does she have in everyday life- outside of Obedience?

Hi, I saw you at Sunday's trial over at Knox, I'm sure! I meant to catch up with you and ask how your fantastic pug went How did you go? My girl's nerve is not brilliant but she is an interesting mix of soft and hard. Strange temperament and not right. Initially some fear aggression. But brilliant with people, all machines, fireworks, tough as nails some things and then just cracks. But in the ring, each excercise I've had to find a trick for to get her to work happily and well. The silence and formality of it gets to her. It's not me, I'm not nervous at all. In training we work in the ring all the time but she is so cluey she can pick just be seeing the judge begin to call the heeling pattern for someone else in the ring. I am sure I'm now on the right track but need to do more research.

I would say now, at 3 1/2, my dog has become with work an ideal dog in everyday life But there is this temperament issue. Goes into prey drive really easily almost anywhere. Great prey drive, great motivation to work, great working dog in many respects. But does have these weird crack-ups and sort of phobias we have to get over. This has been a bad one.

[Arya]

Rom, Ptolomy suggested games like running to the start post and clicking and treating, or use your marker word and treat. Ptolomy said she puts a start post in the ground, then lets her dogs out of the car and they both run to the start post and she clicks and treats. I can vouch for this great idea of hers. I started it last week and it really worked to help my girl to sit more comfortably at the start post at last weekend's trial, even though we'd only been doing it for short time. What I did was set a post up in the back yard - place my dog was happy with. Then we would get to the middle of the yard and race to the post into the heel position. At this point Ptolomy also said she asks for a touch at the start post so that's what I did, then marker word and food reward. It was great fun. I said 'up to the post' and ran. It was lots of fun for the dog, I can tell you! Ptolomy also said to have lots of treats and play attention games at the post. So reward for focus at the post. Anything good to do with the post, I reckon. Just make a great big fun deal out of the post. My dog now thinks the post's her best friend. For me, it enabled me to get the dog in the ring before she switched off in fear. This was a great help ;) THANKS PTOLOMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ptolomy]

Hey fell upon this thread and found that you had some success this weekend. Well done!!!!

Glad to hear that some of the ideas have helped and that the start post has gone from being somewhere scary to a fun place to be.

Just make sure you don't fall back into bad habits.

Take care and thanks for the pats on the back

[Lablover]

I'm tired, but feel like typing.

If your dog is fearful it is important to be a confident and consistent owner, exposing the dog slowly and safely. Without focus......we have nothing.