Cosmolo Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Just wondering what peoples thoughts are on this piece of equipment as a management tool. I used one for the first time on a dog on the weekend after both a correction chain and headcollar proved ineffective for various reasons. The lead connects to a D in the centre of the dogs chest and when the dog pulls, the pressure on the lead actually removes the weight from the dogs opposite leg. So if the dog is on the person's left for example and pressure is applied, the dogs left leg comes slightly off the ground, ceasing the pulling and making it very easy for the owner to move the dog without alot of resistance. Has anyone used one before? Any disadvantages? I see it as a great management tool that comes without alot of the drawbacks of a headcollar but want to hear experiences from others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Do you have a link Cosmolo? I don't think i've seen one in action before?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevafollo Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 what kind of dog did you use it on? just curious!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted October 17, 2007 Author Share Posted October 17, 2007 Used it on at 35-40kg Ridgeback x and link is http://www.gentleleader.com/pages.cfm?id=74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blissirritated Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I have used the Halti version of this (their body harness) and found it good with pulling (without the fight of a headcollar) but wanted to comment that the strap shouldn't be so low that they can pull or interfere with the movement of the dogs leg. The front strap needs to be high so the dogs leg can swing forward freely and the 'body' strap needs to be firm/tight so that there is no hang or too much movement. If there's pressure applied it would applied up behind where the leg joins onto the body -- the idea not being that the dogs legs are pulled up or off the ground, but that the straps around the body and the position of the D ring at the front pull the dog around. It can't pull forward because the lead is attached at the front centre. Imagine a barrel on wheels at the top of a hill. Attaching a lead to the top centre of the barrel and it could pull you down a hill. Attach the lead to the front middle and as the barrel started to roll it would turn on that front point and end up facing you (before it probably went down the hill backwards ) Essentially it acts to swing the dog around if they try to pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted October 17, 2007 Author Share Posted October 17, 2007 Sorry, i don't think i explained it very well- it didn't interfere as such with the movement of the dogs leg generally but when the dog pulled it virtually forced what i would call (in horse terms) a turn on the haunches, moving the dogs shoulders back toward the handler with the outside leg stepping across first (therefore moving off the ground). Does that make more sense? It was fitted nice and firm with no interference when the dog walked normally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 (edited) I haven't any experience with the the harness mentioned but have experienced something similar to what you talk about. We had a dog at club that was recovering from a broken neck and was advised never to have a collar on (had hardware in his neck holding everything in place) so the owners were attempting to train him on a normal harness. He wasn't a serious puller, but he did lean into the harness a lot. The problem with the lead attachment on his back was that attempting to guide him with the lead was like trying to steer a shopping trolley while you're standing in it I got a carbinier and attached it to the chest strap at the point where it meets the strap that goes down between the forelegs and attached the lead to this and saw the movement that you are describing and yes it does help with teaching the dog not to pull. With this particular dog though we needed to add some form of correction before he got to the stage where he was actually being turned around by the force of his own momentum because he tried to maintain eye contact with whatever he was triggering on. We were concerned that if his head stayed in the same position while his body turned, we may end up with a similar whiplash effect as is described with haltis etc. It may not have been as important with a normal healthy dog, but this dog already had a fragile neck. Next I borrowed a training method from the horse world. We got a piece of rope and tied it around the dogs girth behind its front legs and run the loose end between the front legs and through the carbinier. Think check chain, but instead of around the neck, its around the girth...unlimited slip. The rope became the lead. So now not only did we have a kind of no pull harness, but also a way to effectively guide the dog and a way to give a more timely correction all with one lead/piece of rope. I ran all of this by the musculo-skeletal physio that I was seeing for my dog at the time before we actually put it on the dog in question and he said that it would be OK as a short term training aid, however there is the possibility that the dog may learn to use its front legs differently which in turn impact on the overall balance of the musculo-skeletal system. ETA: With the rope being unlimited slip, there is also the risk that you can crack ribs if the dog in question is a violent lunger.....so if there was a way to make this idea limited slip, that would be even better. Edited October 17, 2007 by Rom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blissirritated Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Ah okay, I understand now Cosmolo -- the wording in your first post threw me (easy enough to do ). It is hard to explain how they work without actually 'seeing' it in action. I think they're a good tool, though I've not used it on Gypsy in quite a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheree_e4 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I have tried one and it would not be my first choice for training purposes. I would never reccomend one. My dog who walks perfectly on a regular collar pulled alot when trying it and he is advanced obedience trained. I think the black dog training halter is by far a better option (NOT the infin8 I found these pretty useless) This may not be everyones opnion but its what I've found while instructing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I had something similar for my first border, years ago. It did work well for walking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 We use quite a lot of them at our club and have for some time. Overall we are very happy with them Personally I find them very useful for small breed dogs, medium and large breed dogs are taken on a case-by-case basis. They are obviously not appropriate for all dogs, but they are extremely useful in others, particularly if the owners refuse a head halter but need some form of control in the short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Hey Cosmolo There is another, very similar style of harness, called the Sensible Harness which is from the good ole US of A. One of my trainers had it sent down and we tried it on a 45 kg GSD who is a chronic puller and an 8 year old ACD x and it worked fantastic on both dogs. The concept is similar in that the D is on the dog's chest and if the dog pulls against it, the automatic response is to U turn back to the handler which I think can be used to mould a new behaviour. The Sensible Harness is not as complicated as the Black Dog version and I personally feel it is far superior and does not interfere with any of the dog's movements (not to imply that the BD one does). Here is the link to their website if you wish to have a look see : Sensible Harness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I actually got hold of a sensible harness and find the Easy Walk to fit much better due to the martingale style where the lead attaches, it also doesn't gape as much which is an issue with the sensible IMO. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westielover Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 (edited) I have the halti version for Spencer my brittany cross. He has a tendancy to pull - especially when he spies a cat or possum (on over head wires). The harness works a treat on Spencer. So far I have only attached the lead to the d link on the front of the harness - and he responds really well. The d link on the front of the harness connects to the d link on his collar to keep the front bit of the harness from falling down over his legs. He can also run freely in the harness when off lead. I really like this harness as it causes him absolutely no discomfort. Edited October 17, 2007 by westielover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 The Sensible Harness is not as complicated as the Black Dog version and I personally feel it is far superior ... In what way "far superior" Kelpie-i ? From what I can see, the major difference is the BD having the "martingale" type action on the chest strap, whereas the SH is simply a harness with a D ring at the front middle of the chest. Or are you talking material quality. The SH appears sturdier ..... although that's only going by the pictures given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted October 18, 2007 Author Share Posted October 18, 2007 Thanks for feedback. Has anyone used it with a child walking the dog? Any side effects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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