Mushaka Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 (edited) The sad part of this whole thing is that its indicative of SOOOoooo many dog owners out there. Get a dog,chuck it in the yard "she'll be right"'... Then "OMG its a monster",when the dog bites. How the heck does the dog know any different. I dont show any of my dogs,but all of my dogs receive training. Its tiring at first being so consistent and you wonder at some stages if they will ever get it,but isnt the end result worth it. A trained dog is such a joy to behold,there is no greater feeling than spending the days with your best friend who you can trust to respect you and your pack!!! Truly,the cost,if you employ outside help is low,if you havent got the time,Hanrob **(Steve Austin) takes dogs and trains them for you,you DO need to continue to train yourself,but at least your well on your way. This dog is only young and easily trainable... Please dont wipe your hands of it then get another,and do the same thing again. You cant just cross your fingers and HOPE your dog will be good,you get out what you put in. **ETA..Im not sure wat Steve Austins training is now called?? This has been a very interesting read,..and to think i only popped in here cause on the site all i could see was "Whats wrong with my cock ..im such a child!! pmsl Edited October 22, 2007 by Lewis & Lyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 J: I recommended sending the dog back to the breeder because it is apparent from what Frank wrote that he is nowhere as far as training this dog, and he is not interested in going to obedience, or getting help. K9: I was not talking about any one past, just a generalisation of what happens... I do note that Frank doesnt want to train his dog in obedience but I dont think he isnt interested in getting help... He came here for help... J: One would hope the breeder might have a few more clues than Frank, and may be able to take appropriate steps to turn this dog into a decent canine citizen, either by retraining, or getting help, and rehoming it to an appropriate home - as breeders like me do quite often -- and not just with our own breed either. K9: A friend of mine is a qualified plumber, he also happens to be great at electrical work (not a tradesman though), I dont send people to plumbers for electrical work because some of them can rewire a house, if you know what I mean... I am also a big believer in the fact that if a person has a problem with a dog, & they rehome the dog & get another, some or all of the problems in the first dog will manifest in the new dog in most cases... So I think it would be best if Frank worked with this dog, not someone else take it on... J: Do you think it is more appropriate for it to continue to live with Frank and continue as it is doing, or to be tied up 24/7, or to bite one of the children? Or do you think sending it to the pound is more appropriate? Or having it euthanased because Frank can't cope, or because it bites? K9: none of those, what I did say was: - Frank I would suggest that you have your dog assessed to see what the problem is, it would be ideal for your whole pack to be there initially so one could see what is driving this dog of yours.Then, I am sure that happiness is well within reach as will be the safety of your children... J: Sending the dog back to the breeder in 75% of cases would be better than the options above!! K9: In the many years I have worked with dogs, a 75% success rate has never been acceptable... J: Some breeders actually do more than sit on the lounge waiting for bitches to pop out pups they can sell. Some actually do, or have done, forms of dog sports. Some are actually obedience instructors. Some have actually dealt with problems like this - and worse - before - from other puppy buyers. K9: yep, some do.. & some are completely hopeless.. I dont think you will find anywhere I said that breeders sit on the lounge waiting for bitches to pop out puppies.. Lets not get ahead of yourself there eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 K9: yep, some do.. & some are completely hopeless.. Yes, the same could be said for some trainers as well. So what is the difference? I think Frank has left the thread. I think Frank represents a good number of the pet owning public. I think a lot.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 K9: yep, some do.. & some are completely hopeless.. Yes, the same could be said for some trainers as well. So what is the difference? K9: no excuses for a qualified trainer not to know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenjiMom Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 The sad part of this whole thing is that its indicative of SOOOoooo many dog owners out there. Get a dog,chuck it in the yard "she'll be right"'... Then "OMG its a monster",when the dog bites. How the heck does the dog know any different.I dont show any of my dogs,but all of my dogs receive training. Its tiring at first being so consistent and you wonder at some stages if they will ever get it,but isnt the end result worth it. A trained dog is such a joy to behold,there is no greater feeling than spending the days with your best friend who you can trust to respect you and your pack!!! Truly,the cost,if you employ outside help is low,if you havent got the time,Hanrob **(Steve Austin) takes dogs and trains them for you,you DO need to continue to train yourself,but at least your well on your way. This dog is only young and easily trainable... Please dont wipe your hands of it then get another,and do the same thing again. You cant just cross your fingers and HOPE your dog will be good,you get out what you put in. **ETA..Im not sure wat Steve Austins training is now called?? This has been a very interesting read,..and to think i only popped in here cause on the site all i could see was "Whats wrong with my cock ..im such a child!! pmsl lyn...you not alone there...showed my OH so we went in here. But saying that......if frank dont listen here..what else could one say?? nothing!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushaka Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 The sad part of this whole thing is that its indicative of SOOOoooo many dog owners out there. Get a dog,chuck it in the yard "she'll be right"'... Then "OMG its a monster",when the dog bites. How the heck does the dog know any different.I dont show any of my dogs,but all of my dogs receive training. Its tiring at first being so consistent and you wonder at some stages if they will ever get it,but isnt the end result worth it. A trained dog is such a joy to behold,there is no greater feeling than spending the days with your best friend who you can trust to respect you and your pack!!! Truly,the cost,if you employ outside help is low,if you havent got the time,Hanrob **(Steve Austin) takes dogs and trains them for you,you DO need to continue to train yourself,but at least your well on your way. This dog is only young and easily trainable... Please dont wipe your hands of it then get another,and do the same thing again. You cant just cross your fingers and HOPE your dog will be good,you get out what you put in. **ETA..Im not sure wat Steve Austins training is now called?? This has been a very interesting read,..and to think i only popped in here cause on the site all i could see was "Whats wrong with my cock ..im such a child!! pmsl lyn...you not alone there...showed my OH so we went in here. But saying that......if frank dont listen here..what else could one say?? nothing!!! Sad but true,..some people just dont want to put in any effort. Puggles your right,,,think Frank has left us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 (edited) K9: I was not talking about any one past, just a generalisation of what happens... Oh - sorry, I read your initial post as though the previous posters were being admonished, in some way. Sorry for the misunderstanding. K9 : I do note that Frank doesnt want to train his dog in obedience but I dont think he isnt interested in getting help... He came here for help... This is true .... and I hope you're right. In fact, I think everyone here would hope the same. 'tis a tad difficult to offer help to someone who categorically cancels out *seeking professional help* or doing any training, from the get go, though. K9 : I am also a big believer in the fact that if a person has a problem with a dog, & they rehome the dog & get another, some or all of the problems in the first dog will manifest in the new dog in most cases... that too has been previously expressed in amongst the response posts here. k9 : So I think it would be best if Frank worked with this dog, not someone else take it on... We all agree - but if Frank has already asserted that he will not *work* with the dog nor engage help to do so, where does one go, given the restrictions imposed by the OP? k9 : none of those, what I did say was: -Frank I would suggest that you have your dog assessed to see what the problem is, it would be ideal for your whole pack to be there initially so one could see what is driving this dog of yours. That's all that most people have recommended. K9 - you know me well enough to know that I am the last person to want or to agree to *train over the internet* for all the ramifications that can occur as a result. (Not to suggest I'm agreeing to it here either.) And many/most here have posted in the same vein. I'm really unclear here as to why your posts hint that it has been suggested otherwise. We all know that what Frank and his dog needs is some professional qualified guidance. This too has been recommended throughout - but as this has been flatly negated by Frank, it doesn't leave a lot of room to be able to help further. I enjoy your posts - they are mostly upfront, no-nonsense, straight to the point and downright spot on. But I disagree that this thread is like so many others (and I agree, there have been a lot of those "others" where I too have argued against people advising over the net). Frank's pup NEEDS Frank to understand a bit more about what's going on, why, and how to appropriately channel the behaviour away from the undesirable to the desirable. Frank may not even be reading here anymore - but if he is, I truley hope that our continued conversation here encourages him to obtain that help for, with it, I'm sure he will delight in the turned-around behaviour of his pup. Edited October 23, 2007 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 The sad part of this whole thing is that its indicative of SOOOoooo many dog owners out there. Get a dog,chuck it in the yard "she'll be right"'... Then "OMG its a monster",when the dog bites. How the heck does the dog know any different.I dont show any of my dogs,but all of my dogs receive training. Its tiring at first being so consistent and you wonder at some stages if they will ever get it,but isnt the end result worth it. A trained dog is such a joy to behold,there is no greater feeling than spending the days with your best friend who you can trust to respect you and your pack!!! Truly,the cost,if you employ outside help is low,if you havent got the time,Hanrob **(Steve Austin) takes dogs and trains them for you,you DO need to continue to train yourself,but at least your well on your way. This dog is only young and easily trainable... Please dont wipe your hands of it then get another,and do the same thing again. You cant just cross your fingers and HOPE your dog will be good,you get out what you put in. **ETA..Im not sure wat Steve Austins training is now called?? This has been a very interesting read,..and to think i only popped in here cause on the site all i could see was "Whats wrong with my cock ..im such a child!! pmsl Personally I would never recommend sending the dog away to be trained - firstly, you have no idea what training methods are being used or how the results are being achieved. I am very wary of places that do this. Secondly, if Frank is unwilling to change the way he treats the puppy and to learn how to train it more appropriately then it doesn't matter if this dog gets all the training from a behaviourist possible - if it isn't continued at home then the dog will revert back to its old habits. For any improvement it needs to come from the owners willingness to commit to training IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toohey Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Thank you Erny Well summed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushaka Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 (edited) The sad part of this whole thing is that its indicative of SOOOoooo many dog owners out there. Get a dog,chuck it in the yard "she'll be right"'... Then "OMG its a monster",when the dog bites. How the heck does the dog know any different.I dont show any of my dogs,but all of my dogs receive training. Its tiring at first being so consistent and you wonder at some stages if they will ever get it,but isnt the end result worth it. A trained dog is such a joy to behold,there is no greater feeling than spending the days with your best friend who you can trust to respect you and your pack!!! Truly,the cost,if you employ outside help is low,if you havent got the time,Hanrob **(Steve Austin) takes dogs and trains them for you,you DO need to continue to train yourself,but at least your well on your way. This dog is only young and easily trainable... Please dont wipe your hands of it then get another,and do the same thing again. You cant just cross your fingers and HOPE your dog will be good,you get out what you put in. **ETA..Im not sure wat Steve Austins training is now called?? This has been a very interesting read,..and to think i only popped in here cause on the site all i could see was "Whats wrong with my cock ..im such a child!! pmsl \Personally I would never recommend sending the dog away to be trained - firstly, you have no idea what training methods are being used or how the results are being achieved. I am very wary of places that do this. Secondly, if Frank is unwilling to change the way he treats the puppy and to learn how to train it more appropriately then it doesn't matter if this dog gets all the training from a behaviourist possible - if it isn't continued at home then the dog will revert back to its old habits. For any improvement it needs to come from the owners willingness to commit to training IMO. You cant get any better than Steve Austin...I would have NO hesitation sending my dog to him. Frank already said he hasnt the time for it,best left to a professional,and theres few as good as Steve Austin,I dare say! http://www.petresortsaustralia.com/ thats the link to his site (Steve Austin) Edited October 23, 2007 by Lewis & Lyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushaka Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 To be honest...i dnt think Franks comin back..hahahah we cld ramble all day and he aint gna hear us!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 (edited) You cant get any better than Steve Austin...I would have NO hesitation sending my dog to him.Frank already said he hasnt the time for it,best left to a professional,and theres few as good as Steve Austin,I dare say! http://www.petresortsaustralia.com/ thats the link to his site (Steve Austin) If he hasn't got the time for it, then why have a dog? Behaviourial problems cannot be fixed by a quick visit to a dog trainer, you need to have consistency in the dogs home and with the dogs pack. In most cases it is about teaching the owner, not the dog. A trainer like Steve Austin may be able to handle problem dogs easily himself but that does not mean that Frank will be able to unless he is taught how to do so. Sending the dog away will be useless if Frank isn't going to continue the training at home. A quick example - my beagle will walk on a loose lead for me but not for my sister because my sister does not do any training with her and does not know how to control the dog or how to get her to walk on a loose lead. I would never let my dog be trained by someone without knowing exactly how they are planning to do so and how they plan to achieve any results. I would want to be there the whole time so that I can learn how to handle my dog too. ETA: Frank's problem is the dogs interactions with his children. How will sending the dog away to be trained by a stranger fix this? Edited October 23, 2007 by husky87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 E: Sorry for the misunderstanding. K9: I can let it slide just this once... E: This is true .... and I hope you're right. In fact, I think everyone here would hope the same. 'tis a tad difficult to offer help to someone who categorically cancels out *seeking professional help* or doing any training, from the get go, though. K9: often I think, specially here this can be driven by those that arent familiar with modern day behavioural training.. Lost of those people believe even the simplest dogs cant be rehabbed... We seen that recently with the biting cattle dog... I think people give up on pro help before investing in it... But as you know, the people that do invest in it are saying its the best $$ they ever spent... E: We all agree - but if Frank has already asserted that he will not *work* with the dog nor engage help to do so, where does one go, given the restrictions imposed by the OP? K9: people often thinking the programs we will give are time sonsuming and complicated, when in reality, I only give people the amount of work that will get the job done & nothing more, keeping time schedules high on my list of things to consider... He may feel working his dog is a 24/7 task...? E: I'm really unclear here as to why your posts hint that it has been suggested otherwise. K9: I see the more someone almost immediately jump into what has been suggested, people just seem to try harder to make them commit, when it really doesnt work that way... If people arent ready to commit to a program, 74 more replies pushing them will not help... That becomes counter productive... E: Frank's pup NEEDS Frank to understand a bit more about what's going on, K9: possibly, but this in itself is an internet diagnosis as we havent seen the dog, the dog could have many issues in which Franks input would be of no use... Whilst we may know all the answers to Franks problem, & maybe nothing is wrong with what has been offered here, but the result of the 8 pages is that we now think Frank has gone, when his first post was clearly asking for advice/help... It is easy to justify what we say, but if it has the opposite to our desired result, maybe the delivery needs some work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peibe Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 All I will say is I was worried when Frank impulse brought a Cocker Spaniel in the beginning after loosing his much loved GSD Seems my worries where warranted Great advise from some, get professional help Frank, it will be better for you, dog and family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 E: Sorry for the misunderstanding. K9: I can let it slide just this once... You cheeky sod .... you were supposed to say "that's ok, it was my fault for not being clear ..." E: Frank's pup NEEDS Frank to understand a bit more about what's going on, K9: possibly, but this in itself is an internet diagnosis as we havent seen the dog, the dog could have many issues in which Franks input would be of no use... I agree - but I think you're splitting hairs a bit here. The point is, this can only be told on diagnosis after observation and investigation. Which is what I have been saying and which is what you have been saying. So in this, I think we're on the same page. K9 : Whilst we may know all the answers to Franks problem, & maybe nothing is wrong with what has been offered here, but the result of the 8 pages is that we now think Frank has gone, when his first post was clearly asking for advice/help... Yep - he was and did. And he received it. But then posted that the advice given didn't suit him. K9 : It is easy to justify what we say, but if it has the opposite to our desired result, maybe the delivery needs some work... True, true. And I for one will endeavour to take this on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 (edited) E: You cheeky sod .... you were supposed to say "that's ok, it was my fault for not being clear K9: lol I will just accept your apology humbly... E: Yep - he was and did. And he received it. But then posted that the advice given didn't suit him. K9: well I guess he just doesnt have the faith in you that I do.... Edited October 23, 2007 by K9 Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 K9: lol I will just accept your apology humbly... Being the humble one that you are, of course ..................... You dag ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 K9: thats me! (humble) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 K9: Frank is reading by the way, you must not have scared him off.... lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Frank .... welcome back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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