What's Wrong With My "cocker" ?

[Erny]

Are you there Frank?

Many people have come to you in response to your plea for advice. It would be nice for them to know, by return and by way of courtesy, as to which avenue you have chosen to take to not only keep your children safe from (accidental) harm, but also to help your pup.

Whether you have chosen to go the avenue of trainer/behaviourist assistance or returning the pup to its breeder, we all here only wish for the best outcome for all concerned.

[Jed]

Please talk to the breeder to see if they can find this poor little dog a proper home. Keep the kids and the dog safe.

Nidawi well said.

There are no bad dogs, only bad owners.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: Look this seems to be another thread full of speculation, whilst it would make life really easy to sit back & just consult with people over email, I just cant do that without seeing the dog, diagnosing the problem, assessing the dedication & skills of the owner, & thats me, so I struggle to find out how others seem to do it so easily...

Frank I would suggest that you have your dog assessed to see what the problem is, it would be ideal for your whole pack to be there initially so one could see what is driving this dog of yours.

Then, I am sure that happiness is well within reach as will be the safety of your children...

[Erny]

K9: Look this seems to be another thread full of speculation, whilst it would make life really easy to sit back & just consult with people over email, I just cant do that without seeing the dog, diagnosing the problem, assessing the dedication & skills of the owner, & thats me, so I struggle to find out how others seem to do it so easily...

K9Force .... was it suggested by someone that you do an internet consult? Is that what the OP has expected? Genuine question as your post seems to have sprung up out of the blue here. There hasn't been "speculation" from what I can gather .... most if not all have been encouraging the OP to either engage professional help by way of a consult, or return the pup to its breeder for re-homing.

Edited for strikethrough ... re-reading, there has been a degree of speculation about what is happening with this pup. It still boils down to the owner seeking and obtaining professional consultation for both the pup and the family as a whole.

Edited October 18, 2007 by Erny

[chloebear]

K9: Look this seems to be another thread full of speculation, whilst it would make life really easy to sit back & just consult with people over email, I just cant do that without seeing the dog, diagnosing the problem, assessing the dedication & skills of the owner, & thats me, so I struggle to find out how others seem to do it so easily...

K9Force .... was it suggested by someone that you do an internet consult? Is that what the OP has expected? Genuine question as your post seems to have sprung up out of the blue here.

For my own information (I have a timid adused pound puppy that I have taken) K9 do you just train the dog, or do you teach the owner of the dog how to train their dog.

[huski]

K9: Look this seems to be another thread full of speculation, whilst it would make life really easy to sit back & just consult with people over email, I just cant do that without seeing the dog, diagnosing the problem, assessing the dedication & skills of the owner, & thats me, so I struggle to find out how others seem to do it so easily...

K9Force .... was it suggested by someone that you do an internet consult? Is that what the OP has expected? Genuine question as your post seems to have sprung up out of the blue here.

For my own information (I have a timid adused pound puppy that I have taken) K9 do you just train the dog, or do you teach the owner of the dog how to train their dog.

Maybe having a look at Steve's website will answer this:

http://www.k9force.net

He trains the owner how to handle their dog.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9 do you just train the dog, or do you teach the owner of the dog how to train their dog.

K9: the majority of training is with the owner, yes..

[reddog21]

This thread has been going for 3 days. When is the dog going to get some help?

[frank]

THIS IS THE LAST POST I WILL POST IN THIS THREAD . i think quite a few of you need to seek counsilling for some of the insults, and replies you have posted here . i'd suggest . some of you need to spend a lot less time on the computor here.

K9 THANKYOU FOR YOUR POST HERE . just to let the members know . he wasnt approached or asked anything by me here . and if he/she was . then thankyou to the person who did ask him if at all .

if there is one thing i have learnt here . it is that i now have someone to seek paid professional advice from . at my own decision and choice if i so decide .

most of the rest of you with your insults . can go jump. apoligies to any who genuinly offered advice as there only agenda .

insults and gang ups. like i said . put me on your ignore list .

to evryone else here . see you in off topic / or the cocker section/grey hound section/ or friendly chat . cheers .

[cavNrott]

THIS IS THE LAST POST I WILL POST IN THIS THREAD . i think quite a few of you need to seek counsilling for some of the insults, and replies you have posted here . i'd suggest . some of you need to spend a lot less time on the computor here.

Frank, I read your above quote a couple of times because I couldn't believe what I was reading. People here have taken the time and made the effort to reply to your thread in a positive and helpful manner. We were trying to assist....and you suggest that a few of us need counselling??? :rolleyes: How very rude.

If I were you I would be grateful to people for putting in the effort to assist and explain. I don't see that anyone has insulted you. The same can't be said of your reply. Instead of worrying about how much time people spend on the computer, maybe you can spend a bit more time on it learning about how to keep your children and dog safe.

Would you not expect there to be a level of frustration caused by your apparent lack of interest in training this puppy? The people who replied are concerned about the dog and your children, apparently with good cause.

This surely teaches us that we can only educate people who are willing and capable of being educated.

[Toohey]

I can't see any insults either.. just lots of excellent advice from people who want to help.

I just find this whole thing terribly sad ;)

some of you need to spend a lot less time on the computor here

But gee, then we would not be here to offer advice every time you post about your problems :rolleyes:

This is the crux of it for me.

Frank, you have never given this pup a chance, you have always looked for something..anything to be wrong with it...your heart has never been with this pup...

Frank, have you contacted the breeder yet? Give Bailey a chance to find a home where people will give him what he needs?

[chloebear]

THIS IS THE LAST POST I WILL POST IN THIS THREAD . i think quite a few of you need to seek counsilling for some of the insults, and replies you have posted here . i'd suggest . some of you need to spend a lot less time on the computor here.

Frank, I was only trying to be helpful, I believe I was sympathic to your time constraints and provided suggestions as to how my family overcome this. As a parent my first concern was to the safety of your child as I am sure was most people's. But I must admit yes you have hit a raw nerve with me, in regards to the time I spend on my computer. The only reason I have been using my computer so much latterly is to get advice from everyday people that have or are dealing with the same issues as I am with my dog, but in saying that perhaps I should take some of my own advice and spend less time on the computer and more in the yard with my kids and dog.

I may have come across very blunt at times, but I am currently working with a rescue dog that has been very badley treated and neglected so I am passionate about dogs getting the care that they need (I am in no way saying that you are neglecting or badly treating your dog) this is not a personal attack.

I would just like to wish you and your cocker all the best, and yes I am crossing my fingers for a happy ending.

[kaywoman68]

if we are advised for him to go. i'll offer him here . for someone with other dogs and no children . for free . i guess i'll contact the breeder. we brought a cocker because of thier temperament.

Rehoming him will not solve the problem. I have read the whole thread. Having a dog is a lifelong commitment. When you decided to get Bailey, you made a commitment to give him a loving home and keep him safe for the rest of his life. From what I remember, Bailey was a lovely boy when you got him. SOMETHING has gone wrong since you took him home and it certainly doesn't seem to be his 'genetics' that's to blame.

There's been a number of times now when you have asked for help because there's been problems. It seems you really haven't taken them to heart. You have been on DOL long enough to know what DOL is like and that there's always going to be 2 sides to everything. Not everyone is going to agree with you and there's always going to be opinions regardless of what you like.

I hope you're not doing this method anymore. (http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=98274&hl=)

i am running out when this happens and yellyng . bailey no . and grabbing the back of his neck . putting him on his back and pinning him down with my teeth at hios throat . then he freezes .

What have you done in terms of training in the 6 months since you asked for help when Bailey was hurting your daughter?????

Lovely post Nid :rolleyes:

[patch]

if we are advised for him to go. i'll offer him here . for someone with other dogs and no children . for free . i guess i'll contact the breeder. we brought a cocker because of thier temperament.

Rehoming him will not solve the problem. I have read the whole thread. Having a dog is a lifelong commitment. When you decided to get Bailey, you made a commitment to give him a loving home and keep him safe for the rest of his life. From what I remember, Bailey was a lovely boy when you got him. SOMETHING has gone wrong since you took him home and it certainly doesn't seem to be his 'genetics' that's to blame.

There's been a number of times now when you have asked for help because there's been problems. It seems you really haven't taken them to heart. You have been on DOL long enough to know what DOL is like and that there's always going to be 2 sides to everything. Not everyone is going to agree with you and there's always going to be opinions regardless of what you like.

I hope you're not doing this method anymore. (http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=98274&hl=)

i am running out when this happens and yellyng . bailey no . and grabbing the back of his neck . putting him on his back and pinning him down with my teeth at hios throat . then he freezes .

What have you done in terms of training in the 6 months since you asked for help when Bailey was hurting your daughter?????

Lovely post Nid ;)

:rolleyes: ;) OMG re Frank pinning the pup with his teeth to his throat - who the hell told him to do that???

I'm sorry if Frank is upset with my opinion but I hope like hell he rehomes this poor dog to someone who might actually give him a good home... and that Frank decides that he will never get another dog as good as his GSD who passed away so decides to NOT get another dog.

[cavNrott]

if we are advised for him to go. i'll offer him here . for someone with other dogs and no children . for free . i guess i'll contact the breeder. we brought a cocker because of thier temperament.

Rehoming him will not solve the problem. I have read the whole thread. Having a dog is a lifelong commitment. When you decided to get Bailey, you made a commitment to give him a loving home and keep him safe for the rest of his life. From what I remember, Bailey was a lovely boy when you got him. SOMETHING has gone wrong since you took him home and it certainly doesn't seem to be his 'genetics' that's to blame.

It will solve the problem for the pup providing he goes to someone who will to do the right thing and give him appropriate training. Unfortunately this will involve the puppy unlearning what he's learnt by himself. It will also solve the problem of the pup nipping the kids.

You never know, Frank might have a light bulb moment and realise not bring another pup into the home unless he's prepared to learn basic puppy training and to never allow pup and kids to run together without supervision.

i am running out when this happens and yellyng . bailey no . and grabbing the back of his neck . putting him on his back and pinning him down with my teeth at hios throat . then he freezes .

WTF??? Frank, you didn't...surely not. WTF were you thinking :rolleyes: I don't blame the pup for freezing. I'd freeze too if I witnessed such a totally bizarre action.

Have you contacted the breeder of this pup? I trust she will be happy to take Bailey back. Did you tell the breeder that you had no intention of training the pup? Did she know you had two young children who would not have adult supervision when interacting with the puppy?

I suggest you either give the pup back to the breeders ASAP if she's an ethical breeder or rehome the pup to someone who will take responsibility for doing right by the pup. Please do this urgently before this pup develops more problems and one of your children is injured.

[kaywoman68]

K9: Look this seems to be another thread full of speculation, whilst it would make life really easy to sit back & just consult with people over email, I just cant do that without seeing the dog, diagnosing the problem, assessing the dedication & skills of the owner, & thats me, so I struggle to find out how others seem to do it so easily...

Frank I would suggest that you have your dog assessed to see what the problem is, it would be ideal for your whole pack to be there initially so one could see what is driving this dog of yours.

Then, I am sure that happiness is well within reach as will be the safety of your children...

frank came here asking advice etc before he got Bailey.

The problem is that there's people who gave him advice when he posted about Bailey hurting his daughter (9 years old) in April and it seems like he hasn't done much since then. Also the fact he seems to be making excuses by saying he works full-time, he can't be there to watch out every time etc.....how many of us who have jobs (most people on here would be working full time) and still manage to have happy, bite-free dogs. I know there's some dogs who will bite but not all dogs will just lash out. I believe the fact that frank had, in the past, been running out, pinning Bailey on the ground and growling and intimidating him (by putting his teeth against his throat) is partially to blame for Bailey's problem.

Here's the full post from the OP when he asked for help because Bailey was attacking his daughter

well my pup baley is 5 months old now , and he seems to think he is ranked higher than my daughter who is 9 . he plays that rough with her he attacks her and gets her on the ground and bites her hair whilst growling , he also rips her clothes . he doesnt listen to her objecting and yelling . he has been to puppy school . i'm sure he is only playing , not savagely attacking her .

i am running out when this happens and yellyng . bailey no . and grabbing the back of his neck . putting him on his back and pinning him down with my teeth at hios throat . then he freezes .

is this the way , in dog terms to let him know this is just not on . as spraying cold water on him is useless.

when i had my germnan shepard i did this with him anfd he never attacked anyone, unless threatened . which he was never given the portunity to attack

thoughts and comments welcome !!!!!!!!!!!!!

K9 Force, I do see where you're coming from but I would react too if someone did this (the teeth against my throat) to me! (if I were a dog). frank also made the assumption that just because he did this with his german shepherd and "never attacked anyone, unless threatened", Bailey would do the same. I'm sure Bailey has been scared from all this behaviour.

It also wouldn't help with the behaviour if Bailey doesn't get to interact with the children much unless the children are outside (especially when he's tied up)

ETA: frank agreed in April that no child should be left alone with the dog yet he still seems to be doing it.................

Edited October 19, 2007 by kaywoman68

[Jed]

It's all too easy - Frank is not treating the dog as he should, he will not listen to advice. He should stop having hissy fits because he doesn't like the truth, and send the dog back. A cocker shouldn't be tied up, or kept outside - there are the first problems, no training is the second, and the reactive training this dog has had has been incorrect.

I am sure the GSD was not a problem, although untrained, because he was a mature dog when the children came along, and were running and jumping. He was used to them from babies.

Too easy to blame the dog for people problems. Hope Frank picks the cocker hair out of his teeth and contacts the breeder. :rolleyes:

Edited October 20, 2007 by Jed

[centitout]

frank is no different to a lot of people-they want help that involves,no cost and no time and the dog comes out perfectly well trained.a man up here has the same problem with a miniture daccie. it absolutely hates one of his kids and will growl and try to bite every time it comes near him.he asked me what to do(i suggested o/training) but they dont have time,then i suggested that when they are sitting on the lounge(this is where most of it happens)and she does it-he is to pick her up straight away and put her in another room for a minute.it would only take a day or so-but he said ,I HAVENT GOT THE TIME TO DO THAT!!!.

[Ons]

the magical pill cure - give the dog a tablet every morning for two weeks and his behaviour will suddenly become perfect.

Wished it worked that way, but no it doesn't and I know that the hard way from my experiences with my male golden. And yes I sought professional help (from Steve at K9) and yes he taught me not Onslow and yes it was hard work and time consuming and i had to be consistent and not namby pamby Onsy and yes i work full time but still managed to do it AND it all paid off with a happier me a happier onsy and a happier tilly. I travelled 6 hours by car to see Steve, surely someone from Penrith if genuine about wanting help would.

But I guess what centitout in her post says is correct - they want help that involves,no cost and no time and the dog comes out perfectly well trained

[Steve K9Pro]

KW: K9 Force, I do see where you're coming from but I would react too if someone did this (the teeth against my throat) to me!

K9: I dont think I at any time recommended pinning a dog? So I dont think you can see where I am coming from...?

But what I would say is, Breeders seem to be a lot of peoples source for behaviour solutions, not sure why this would be...?