Whippets And Kidney Disorder

[Crits'N'Bits]

i have been trying to get some information regarding kidney disorder in dogs particularly in whippets.

following the death of my dear little whippet last week (snake bite then recovery - then relapse and kidney failure) i would like to find out whether kidney failure in whippys is common.

i have asked my vet and also requested to see all the tests results they did on my boy - however they are reluctant to hand over any of his records and also indicated that they thought there may have been a congenital kidney disorder

my boy was only 22 months old and there had been no symptoms of kidney disorder prior to the snake bite so i really cant understand why this has been said.

i know that nothing will bring him back, but i would really like to know why his condition deteriorated so quickly a week after the snake bite. i almost feel as if the vet did stuff-all to save him - all they have given me is a bill for $800 and a dead dog

[Poodle wrangler]

Perhaps you could say that the breeder is interested if the vet suspects congenital kidney problems.

Not a bad idea to phone the breeder, anyway, to let them know the sad news and the vet's theory re. possible kidney disease.

Breeder may be able to give you more info. about it.

Were any blood tests done if dog was desexed at an earlier age? (usually an optional extra). This would give you a baseline.

Good luck with it and sorry to hear the sad news.

I'm not sure why a good vet would not share information with you, if asked in a non-accusing, constructive way :D ?

Sadly, a friend of my Mum's lost their much-loved GSD with a kidney disorder at only 3 years (no snakebite). They were just very unfortunate as the dog was from a registered breeder who did health testing. Health testing reduces the odds of problems, but there are never any guarantees with a living creature.

[Crisovar]

There is a lot of internal damage caused to tissue and muscle etc when a dog is affected by snake venom.

The kidneys have to work extra hard to filter the wastes and toxins, kidney damage is not at all uncommon after a snake bite.

[Kirislin]

I haven't heard of kidney failure being common in whippets. I am so sorry about Digby and I know what it's like to go over and over something like this, wanting to understand why it happened. I dont know much about snake bite but I have definitely heard of animals appearing to recover only to succumb a week or two later due to organ failure :D It's just tragic.

Linda

[Crits'N'Bits]

we keep going over and over why we didnt pick up on signs of it if there was already a weakness there.

and also knowing that there would be muscle weakness after a snake bite why didnt the vet send him home with something stonger than amoxil - surely something else would have been more appropriate.

and now that the vet is saying it could have been a congenital condition - why didnt they consider that when they sent him home for that week

i know its all "whys' and its not going to bring him back - but i guess i just need some answers. with the vet not wanting to show me the test results it just makes me think there was something that was overlooked initially.

sorry for the vent - but i am worried that this might happen again. we only have one vet clinic here and at the moment my faith in them is pretty low.

[morgan]

Have known many whippets and a number of whippet breeders over the years and have never heard of kidney problems. Have known of a few dogs that have died more than a week after a snake bite, including one of my own dogs.

[Sheridan]

Hannah, the vets are perfectly able to give you copies of the test results. You just need to train them to do it. I've found that saying sternly, 'And you will give me copies of the test results' worked for me.

[Jed]

Hannah, I have no idea about the incidence of kidney problems in whippets, but snake venom causes a lot of organ damage and kidney damage is one instance. A friend was bitten by a snale, and had a lot of problems during the weeks following the bite, including kidney problems.

Something stronger than amoxil would not have helped. It's really hard when you desperately want to understand what happened and why, particularly when it looks as if your beloved dog is out of the woods - and then he has a relapse. Probably just too much venom, too much snake for a not very big dog. When something like this has happened to me, I've been able to get detailed information from my vet, which really helps my understanding, and helps me let go. Knowing everything which can be done has been done is helpful too.

[alanglen]

Whippets certinaly aren't one of the common "kidney problem" breeds. My first thought was possibly tht he still had some muscle damage happening and that put too much pressure on the kidneys. When these patients are in critical care, they can be on drips for days, weeks or even a couple that were happy and looked healthy but needed the drip for a month! There is a specific urine test to tell you when they are ok to take off the drip safely and until that is clear they should stay on. Many do survive with coming off early but the odd one won't cope coming off early and go into kidney failure. Don't feel you have missed anything in your boy. If he truly had congenital kidney disease then I wouldn't have thought he could make it through the initial stages of snake bite.

By the way, Australian law says you have a right to a copy of all medical records and test results. Xrays are meant to stay at a medical facility for 7 years but copies of the bloods etc shouldn't be an issue.

Hopefully this helps a little. May your boy rest in peace.

[morgan]

Was speaking to a customer today whose foxie only just survived a snake bite 10 mths ago, with antivenene etc. Ever since the dog has been drinking an unusual amount of water and her kidneys are struggling. The vet said there's nothing he can do as the kidneys simply sustained too much damage from the venom.

[Crits'N'Bits]

thanks for your comments guys - it helps to get some thoughts about this.

i am seeing the vet again tomorrow and hopefully will be able to get some of the results.

alanglen i was quite interested in what you said that there is a specific urine test to tell you when they are ok to take off the drip. i am pretty well certain that this was not done. initially he was on the drip for 2 nights and the first night he sat on the tube and actually blocked the flow. when he came home he was far from well and i had to keep pushing fluids into him. i think more should have been done then. he started to come good on the wednesday and thursday, but had relapsed by friday.

for a little dog that otherwise appeared to be fit and healthy it is just so unfair that he lost his battle. maybe there was too much damage for him to pull through, but i still feel not enough medical treatment was given initially

[Poodle wrangler]

thanks for your comments guys - it helps to get some thoughts about this.

i am seeing the vet again tomorrow and hopefully will be able to get some of the results.

alanglen i was quite interested in what you said that there is a specific urine test to tell you when they are ok to take off the drip. i am pretty well certain that this was not done. initially he was on the drip for 2 nights and the first night he sat on the tube and actually blocked the flow. when he came home he was far from well and i had to keep pushing fluids into him. i think more should have been done then. he started to come good on the wednesday and thursday, but had relapsed by friday.

for a little dog that otherwise appeared to be fit and healthy it is just so unfair that he lost his battle. maybe there was too much damage for him to pull through, but i still feel not enough medical treatment was given initially

hannahh, I work with sick people, not dogs, but am guessing some things apply to both.

If a person has kidney problems, their blood tests, urine output, fluid intake are closely monitored and measured.

A urine test to tell you they're OK to take off the drip? Haven't heard of that.

In humans, the drip is taken down when they can take enough fluids by mouth. Kidney damage isn't reversible with a drip, though a drip is used to make sure they get enough fluids in. The only treatment I'm aware of is the antivenom and "supportive measures" e.g. the drip for fluids. Should he have stayed on the drip longer? You were pushing fluids. Don't know. My mother has kidney failure and her fluids are restricted. A vet hospital is full of sick dogs, so there were risks to leaving him there, too.

Vet and medical treatments can be very confusing. You don't have a vet's degree, do you?

It sounds like you did all you could.

Ask the vet all your questions, so that you can put your mind at rest and continue to grieve your sad loss .

Edited October 15, 2007 by Poodle wrangler

[alanglen]

The urine test I was talking about is to check for myoglobinuria. When the muscles break down they produce myoglobin (looks like miscroscopic blood in the urine but is specifically from the muscle degradtion caused by the snake venom) and the kidneys have a very hard time allowing this out which in turn can do damage to the kidneys, aka frequently causing kidney failure. The urine test checks for myoglobinuria and if present he drip is continued until clear. Once clear then the rates can be turned down slowly to allow the normal concentrating ability of the kidneys to return.

It is difficult to put ourselves into the position that you and your vet were in. Most areas do not have 24 hour vet facilities available to them and so drips can get blocked, we hate it when it happens but it does, unless vets and nurses are there to hear the monitors beep then the fluids stop. In an idea orld things may have been different but unfortunately we cannot turn back the clock for your boy.

And yes to those that asked, I do have a vets degree.

[Crits'N'Bits]

thanks alanglen - that has helped to understand this all abit more and to know what to do/request if ever it happens to another of my animals. the tragedy in all of this is that i would have sat up with him for a long as it took while he was on the drip or with whatever other treatment was needed.