Arya Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Hi just got me latest copy of Dogs Vic magazine and read the article on dog training. What do people think of these articles. I have found several things in them that made me cringe to be frank. Last month it was the comment that people in the UK have found they need a Border Collie to stand any chance of winning Obedience tests (what are all their other dogs stupid or something over there?LOL). This month, I was surprised to read the totally negative attitude towards motivational training, both with use of food rewards and also use of tug toys. It actually states 'never have a game of tug-o-war'!!! I hope nobody takes any notice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rhapsodical78 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 I was cringing along with you. Some dubious ideas there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 I started reading them when they first came out and wondered where this person got their credentials! Now I can't bear to look at them! I just glanced now - hmm... never play chasey, never tug and never rough house - all excellent tools for razzing up a dog/ getting your dog to enjoy training! ALL of his methods for recalls/ stays/ heeling etc are VERY OLD SCHOOL! I just hope, like you Arya that no one is reading them and treating it like bible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffnCel Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 When we went to our local obedience club they told us to never get into a tug of war with our dog, and if we do, make sure that we win so that the dog doesn't become dominant. We're doing drive training and this is completely different to what our IPO club says... hmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 Yes, that is what really worries me. That some people WILL treat it like a bible and create all sorts of problems for their dogs and what's awful, is deprive their dogs and themselves of so much fun! That kind of training is so against the Gina O'Keefe training I have just been reading about it's like 'chalk and cheese' LOL. What I can't understand is why Dogs Vic didn't employ an UP TO DATE trainer to write a series of articles. Someone like Gina O'Keefe or Steve Austin or several others I can think of. Or run a series of articles containing tips from some of our best winning Obedience/Agility trainers in recent years. Wouldn't that have been good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 When we went to our local obedience club they told us to never get into a tug of war with our dog, and if we do, make sure that we win so that the dog doesn't become dominant.We're doing drive training and this is completely different to what our IPO club says... hmm? Oh no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JeffnCel, you need to let the dog WIN WIN WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is like playing one on one basketball with someone. How would you like it if you never got a shot at the goal? How sad. Hey, though, I have come across people who have said to me not to play tug with my dog because it will 'make her vicious' what a stupid joke that is! I use two rewards so we both win. Great for IPO people, great for ANKC people but best of all, a great fun thing for the dogs. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Yes, that is what really worries me. That some people WILL treat it like a bible and create all sorts of problems for their dogs and what's awful, is deprive their dogs and themselves of so much fun! That kind of training is so against the Gina O'Keefe training I have just been reading about it's like 'chalk and cheese' LOL. What I can't understand is why Dogs Vic didn't employ an UP TO DATE trainer to write a series of articles. Someone like Gina O'Keefe or Steve Austin or several others I can think of. Or run a series of articles containing tips from some of our best winning Obedience/Agility trainers in recent years. Wouldn't that have been good! Exactly! Hardly anyone can still train like that surely! I mean - not every dog has an ulterior motive for world domination! I let my dogs win 90% of the time when we tug. why? Because they are SOFT dogs, and if I win all the time, they don't want to tug! All you need to do is make sure that your dog will relinquish the toy to you when asked....... It seriously makes me so mad sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffnCel Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 We definately let our dog win, how on earth is she going to learn to bite and hold without winning in tug of war with us??? Thankfully she has a fantastic prey drive and won't let go unless you practically cut her air supply off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 (edited) I laughed at the recent article, no tug toys, no rough playing, no playing chasey.....geez way to ruin all the fun. Same here, hope no one treats it like its Gods gift. Seriously considered writing a letter, but they wouldnt take any notice from me. Edited October 10, 2007 by tollersowned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 We definately let our dog win, how on earth is she going to learn to bite and hold without winning in tug of war with us??? Thankfully she has a fantastic prey drive and won't let go unless you practically cut her air supply off. Wow, JeffnCel, sounds fantastic! Mine is good but I can get it off her simply by offering food treat or second bit of hose, preferably. But she is now at the point where after a play she'll give it up anyway as the game begins immediately again. It is great, isn't it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 I laughed at the recent article, no tug toys, no rough playing, no playing chasey.....geez way to ruin all the fun.Same here, hope no one treats it like its Gods gift. Seriously considered writing a letter, but they wouldnt take any notice from me. I thought about writing a letter too but like you, they certainly wouldn't take any notice of me LOL. I wonder how the person who wrote these got this job though? As I said earlier, so many wonderful trainers could have done better imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 There was an article submitted and published a few months ago in 'argument' for want of a better word...it was quite good. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helen Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 (edited) I know the person who wrote it , probably would have written more for them but they have decided to go with the same old. I haven't received my october Vic dog yet, does everyone have theirs? Edited October 10, 2007 by helen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Arya, were the articles written by Michael Tucker?? The last few I read were written by him. If so, he's been around for over 50 years and unfortunately his techniques have not evolved over that time. He's very "old school" and shuns anything that remotely points to motivational or "positive" style training of today. Sad really It's all aversives and "make the dog do it" type of mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Nah Helen I haven't got mine yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffnCel Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 We definately let our dog win, how on earth is she going to learn to bite and hold without winning in tug of war with us??? Thankfully she has a fantastic prey drive and won't let go unless you practically cut her air supply off. Wow, JeffnCel, sounds fantastic! Mine is good but I can get it off her simply by offering food treat or second bit of hose, preferably. But she is now at the point where after a play she'll give it up anyway as the game begins immediately again. It is great, isn't it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes it's great for now...I'm not looking forward to teaching her "out" tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawsaroundoz Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 I went to a seminar given by the writer of the articles once many years ago, one of those conferences where one takes one's dog and does a bit of work...well Wellington just about went to sleep and when i tried to gee him up a bit...yeah 'don't do that' it will make him take control.....and all that same old same old - Wellie was a GR ! I too have cringed at the advice in the articles, certainly would not get young Clancy working if he didn't think he was going to 'win' or have FUN!! Annie and her boyz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 I only got my VicDog mag yesterday so they shouldnt too far away for those who havent got them yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 Arya, were the articles written by Michael Tucker?? The last few I read were written by him.If so, he's been around for over 50 years and unfortunately his techniques have not evolved over that time. He's very "old school" and shuns anything that remotely points to motivational or "positive" style training of today. Sad really It's all aversives and "make the dog do it" type of mentality. Yep, that's him Kelpie-i and boy, you are not kidding!!! I was thinking about it today and I reckon a good name for this type of training should be, instead of motivational training, SUBJUGATIONAL training. Let's squash the joy out of the dog and force it to do it. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Dogs do, whatever works for them. Just like us in a lot of ways. If they are not high desire, with sound nerves, a different approach and a lot of work, is required, as our criteria raises. As many trainers have advised........watch our dogs. Reallly watch them. Not all rewards suit various dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now