Issue With Foster Dog

[Aphra]

I need some advice about my current foster dog. I particularly need people to point out the flaws in my understanding, difficult I know without knowing the dog or being present.

Harry is, at best guess, a Staffy X maybe Kelpie, maybe some Whippet, a bit of a generic mutt. He's about 2 years old, and only recently desexed, about the size of a Kelpie, but quite lean and leggy.

I had Harry for a month before he went on trial to his new home, and in that time he was really a trouble-free little dog. He was a bit inclined to mouth and jump up, being naturally pretty bouncy, but by the end of the month he had pretty much stopped both behaviours.

He played happily with my dogs, and seemed one of those laid back sort of types who aren't much interested in rank. Even my little Whippet X can tell Harry off, and they don't come much more submissive than Rupert.

Harry has great recall, has a good sit, will wait for his dinner, walks well on a lead, was OK left on his own, was good in the car and all round seemed to me to be a nice little dog with good manners. He likes to run and he's energetic, but left alone isn't destructive or noisy.

He went on trial to friends of mine who have a 13 year old dog. Harry and the old dog get on extremely well, the old dog being quite able and willing to take a dominant role, and Harry was happy to accept his place without arguement.

Harry's pretty high energy so it took him a little while to get the hang of being quiet in the house, but seemed to be getting there. I had suggested that clicker training might be a good way of engaging him in an activity which would keep his mind engaged and wear him out a bit. He was getting two, on lead, walks a day and lots of play time in the garden with his new friend.

Then last Friday my friend told me that she'd had an "incident" with Harry which spooked her. Harry had been in the house with her, her son and her husband watching TV. Harry had jumped up, ran up to her and mouthed her hand (she felt teeth but there were no marks on her hand). She didn't do anything, and a minute later he did the same to her foot, again, no marks.

In neither instance did my friend actually respond to Harry, even to tell him off, she was, I think afraid he'd bite her. Her husband has had no such experience with Harry and in fact Harry seems to much prefer her husband (I'm female, so I don't think it's that Harry just prefers men).

I went around that evening and picked Harry up and brought him home.

Over the weekend I've put him under a bit of pressure trying to elicit something that looks like this behaviour, but he seems to me the same nice dog he always was.

I've walked up behind him and grabbed him by the tail, I've held his feet, lifted him up, taken food out of his mouth, stared him down, held him when he wanted to move. I can't do much more without hurting him, and so far he's shown no interest in nipping or challenging me.

I don't know what to make of the incident described, it might have been a bored dog trying to elicit a game; or he might have been trying to force her out of his pack.

What I found interesting was that when I went to pick Harry up on Friday he was over-joyed to see me, but that he almost completely ignored my friend. I told him to sit and his bum hit the ground, she told him to sit and he didn't want to know.

Her body language was very concilatory and submissive and Harry was responding exactly as you'd expect to that kind of behaviour.

I assumed, wrongly I think, that because this family already had a dog who is pretty well behaved, that they had the skills to cope with a new dog. I'd never have placed Harry with them if I thought he was likely to be difficult.

My take on this is that Harry has no respect for my friend, so that Harry's behaviour, while not aggressive as such, was the kind of over-assertive approach that you'd choose for a dog of lesser rank. I suspect that if he'd been told off then and there that would have been the end of the matter, but that he wasn't receiving adequate leadership and direction.

If they decide they want to try again, I'd suggest the triangle of temptation, NLIF, lots of exercise and clicker training to get his mind engaged. I've also offered to bring in a behaviourist to work with them to develop their leadership skills, but I don't really think that Harry is the right dog for them if they're going to be scared of him. On the other hand, if they are interested in another dog, the same issue might well arise, if it's down to their management and not the dog.

But am I missing something here? Is there another explanation of his behaviour? Is there something else I might try to assess him before I start looking for another home for him. I'm a bit shaken because I'm usually a reasonably good judge of dog character and now I'm wondering what I might have missed.

Edited October 8, 2007 by Aphra

[persephone]

A long shot.... but maybe something was said on the TV which triggered him doing this?

May he have 'heard' a long forgotten phrase or command?

sorry I can't be more help...without knowing/seeing everyones' body language it is tricky :D

Harry sounds a great little dog tho!

[jesomil]

At a guess it sounds like he was trying to get a game happening.

She sounds like she has absolutely no leadership qualities and that would be terribly confusing to a dog.

Chances are they gave lots of affection when they got him instead of making sure they asserted their leadership status. He may now feel that he is being forced into a leadership role because no one else seems to be taking charge.

He sounds like a normal happy dog that has landed with someone that needs to learn a few tips about being a dog owner.

[kamuzz]

What jesomil said.

He needs "rules, boundaries and limitations" to be a happy dog.

Tricky situation for you to sort out, as its like your friend needs to go to dog school.

[Guest rhapsodical78]

I own a kelpie and sometimes my dog does this to me to elicit a game. It's always very gentle and I don't discourage it. We have a quick little tussle and I tell him to piss off so I can watch TV. I'm a fairly strong leader so he responds well to this. I could imagine with a much weaker individual he might become overly assertive in trying to prompt a game, though. This is what I imagine might have happened. To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure someone like that would make a great dog owner without a few lessons. I'd rehome Harry to someone more capable.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

My first thoughts would have been he was trying to gain her attention for some reason, eg a game - my dear little foxy used to do this with me when he'd lost his ball in a place he couldn't reach himself!!!

Edited October 8, 2007 by dogmad

[Guest rhapsodical78]

My first thoughts would have been he was trying to gain her attention for some reason, eg a game - my dear little foxy used to do this with me when he'd lost his ball in a place he couldn't reach himself!!!

Heh. My old terrier used to do the same thing.

[ShellyBeggs]

What Jesomil said........

and what rhapsodical78 said......

Although you would never mouth the pack leader to play (ie the husband) a dog will try and incite a game with other lesser members of the pack by mouthing or nipping them. I see it all the time at home...... nipping the leader to play will just get you told off.......

It sounds like Harry sees your friend as being an equal and the husband and you as being leaders.

Your friend needs to work on her leadership skills......

I would worry about putting a young or energetic dog with someone who got scared at a mouthing dog rather than exerting leadership. Dogs can sense uncertainty or fear and likely you are right and had she told him off he likely wouldn't try it again.

[Aphra]

Thank you for your comments everyone. I know that without seeing the behaviour it's hard to judge, but I'm reassured that my judgement might not have been so flawed.

Harry is a great little dog, he's lots of fun to have around and I really appreciate his kind and laid-back approach to other dogs.