I Need Drive For My Puppy.

[alpinebase evita]

How long have you been doing it?

How do you do the excercises? for how long, how many times a day?

Will the dog play with you willingly everywhere you take her?

Will she play with another person?

Do yo give a comand for the prey work?

Oh and how about a video so we can all see what you are talking about.

ps - im no IPO expert by any means, but I have seen/send several dogs to the IPO club and hardly any of them despite what the owners thought were drivey enough to do the work.

i have been doing ipo for 6 months. i do the drive excercises about 5 times a day for 5 mins or when she get board i dont know wat you mean about how i do them. she plays with me willingy yes but she is doing it half heartly and she plays with other people yes.. and i dont give her a command for it.

[Seita]

I have been doing ipo for 6 months. i do the drive excercises about 5 times a day for 5 mins or when she get board i dont know wat you mean about how i do them. she plays with me willingy yes but she is doing it half heartly and she plays with other people yes.. and i dont give her a command for it.

I don't know anything about IPO but I know a little bit about training in drive. Maybe skip training for a few days and give her no stimulation whatsoever, not toys, no training, no games, don't take her out of the yard, nothing - this would make her really bored, then do like a 2 minute session a few days after this and as soon as she hits her peak drive (as in super keen) then stop playing with her and leave. I know that when I was building drive with my pup she was not allowed out of the yard for several weeks, no toys, games, training, walks, interaction with other dogs - basically I had to get her really bored and really frustrated to start bringing out the drive. Also do you use just one prey item as a reward? I found that sticking to one toy works really well rather than continuously switching and changing toys. Like Arya says, contact Steve at k9force for some info - his training in drive program works really well!

[MonElite]

if you have been doing it for 6 months with the frequency youstate, and keeping the dog crated at other times Id say that you are doing something really wrong or your dog doesnt have genetically enough drive.

When you start playing with her dont you say something like "ready?" how does she know that she si to go into drive if you dont tell her?

Im pretty sure this is covered in the Balabanov videos.

do people at the IPO club say she has enough drive and nerve to do the work?

[alpinebase evita]

I have been doing ipo for 6 months. i do the drive excercises about 5 times a day for 5 mins or when she get board i dont know wat you mean about how i do them. she plays with me willingy yes but she is doing it half heartly and she plays with other people yes.. and i dont give her a command for it.

I don't know anything about IPO but I know a little bit about training in drive. Maybe skip training for a few days and give her no stimulation whatsoever, not toys, no training, no games, don't take her out of the yard, nothing - this would make her really bored, then do like a 2 minute session a few days after this and as soon as she hits her peak drive (as in super keen) then stop playing with her and leave. I know that when I was building drive with my pup she was not allowed out of the yard for several weeks, no toys, games, training, walks, interaction with other dogs - basically I had to get her really bored and really frustrated to start bringing out the drive. Also do you use just one prey item as a reward? I found that sticking to one toy works really well rather than continuously switching and changing toys. Like Arya says, contact Steve at k9force for some info - his training in drive program works really well!

thats a really good idea i will have to do that one.

[alpinebase evita]

if you have been doing it for 6 months with the frequency youstate, and keeping the dog crated at other times Id say that you are doing something really wrong or your dog doesnt have genetically enough drive.

When you start playing with her dont you say something like "ready?" how does she know that she si to go into drive if you dont tell her?

Im pretty sure this is covered in the Balabanov videos.

do people at the IPO club say she has enough drive and nerve to do the work?

im doing every thing i was told i just think geneticly she dosent have it but ill keep trying

[Rom]

I first started doing drive exercises with my dog over a year ago now. I can look back now and see areas where I made errors, so I'm constantly changing and improving what I do. I still consider myself a total novice at this stuff because I'm making new realisations every week. So I'm more than happy to be told I'm wrong

First up, I think that perhaps 5 times a day is too much.

Somethings to try:

Try putting the dog on a tie back on a non correctional collar and play with the prey item by yourself to see if the dog builds frustration at trying to get the prey item. Flick the prey item into the area that the dog can reach and pull it out again. You might be able to keep your body parts out of the equation this way too

As to when to allow the dog a catch....and this is one that I really had problems coming to grips with....initially allow lots of catches and praise the dog for catching. When you see the dog develop an interest in catching, start to make the catch harder to get and praise effort.

If you also think in terms of what we know about extinction bursts, there is a point in time where a dog has been putting effort into getting a percieved reward, and if that reward is not forth coming, the intensity of the behaviour/effort increases just before it starts to go extinct. So be on the lookout for each small increase in effort/intensity and be prepared to allow the dog a win at that time. This was one of my major mistakes, I'd see an increase in intensity but miss rewarding it with a win. So I'd inadvertently reward her on the other side of the extinction burst when the intensity of the behaviour started to drop off. Make sure that your dog gets a few rewards at that new level of intensity so its sure about what it has to do in order to catch the prey item before you go looking for a new level of intensity (i.e. making the prey item a little harder to win and waiting for a new level of intensity in behaviour before allowing the dog a win)

ETA: I'm also working from the perspective of a dog that I don't believe has solid nerve in prey drive so perhaps I'm needing to work harder to nurse her through? On the other hand, I believe that her food drive is the better drive to work with because she seems to be able to block out more distractions in the presence of food and maintain the drive for longer.

If you search the training forum for a thread called 'Prey Drive, Control and Focus' there's a heap of good information in there.

Edited October 4, 2007 by Rom

[alanglen]

ok so I do a lot of dog sports and I understand the need for drive but seriously she is 5 months old. My best suggestion is stop all the training and rubbish and let her develop. Once she develops further, around 9-18 months of age she will start to choose her favourite toy, game or treat and then you use that to develop drive further. No sport lets you compete or even train heavily with a pup that young so why does she need to be trained 7 times per day and crated if she is not buzzing with drive? be careful not to create a psycho pup with no understanding of quiet / settled time, too much drive discussion and she may just tip over the edge!

All pups naturally have some drive but she is growing and learning every day. Expose her to other dogs with high prey drive with the toy/tug that you want and just let it happen naturally. I have never known agility people pushing that hard that early!

[Tangwyn]

Hi there,

To me, 5 - 7 times a day seems too much. I'd cut it back to once or twice a day. I'm not familiar with training dogs for bite work but have successfully built retrieve drive in young dogs with apparently low prey/retrieve drive. You want your pup to think about the tug toy or whatever as the highlight of his day. You can increase the value of the object by limiting access.

Also, I wouldn't panic about a 5 month old displaying limited drive. My young dog looked like a bag of poo (no retrieve drive) until he turned 6 or 7 months old. Now he's a crazy retriever!

[Kavik]

I found when I was building drive with my Kelpie that sometimes I was trying too hard and he wasn't working very well. Once I relaxed and made it more fun he improved greatly. Basically I guess I stopped trying to use rules such as crating beforehand, or even a command, and just got down and had fun! I think they can tell when you are really into it and enjoying it and when you aren't. So my advice is to relax and have fun, and don't try to use too many rules in your drive building just yet.

She may genetically not have the amount of drive needed, you would need someone to see her to assess that. Only one of my three dogs has a decent amount of drive that I can channel into training. One of the others has drive but poor nerves coupled with the fact that I probably inhibited her drive development when young (didn't know about it then) and the other just does not have enough drive.

[Tonymc]

Alpine,the Pup is only five months so give her time.Too much pressure too soon can be detrimental.

As others have also suggested,what Genetic background does she come from? Tony

[JeffnCel]

Heya Matt I have a DVD I'm getting off Bree of that Bernard Flinks guy about building drive and prey drive and stuff that I will try and get and bring on Tuesday for you to have a look at. I think what the others have said is right, let her have fun right now and in a few months kick the training into gear. During that time you can read books and watch training DVD's and learn heaps with me ;)

[Jeff Jones]

have been doing ipo for 6 months. i do the drive excercises about 5 times a day for 5 mins or when she get board i dont know wat you mean about how i do them. she plays with me willingy yes but she is doing it half heartly and she plays with other people yes.. and i dont give her a command for it.

Hi Alpine,

5 minutes is way too long for prey drive building exercises with a 6 month old pup. I dont think doing the exercises 5 times a day is excessive but you need to work your way up to it first.

you shouldnt be going by a set time limit of 5 minutes or whenever your dog gets bored, you should choose to end the game when the dog is frustrated and still happily working to get the prey item.

I believe she is playing half heartedly at the moment as you are giving her too many prey items to choose from and her training sessions are going too long.

I would suggest to stop doing the prey building exercises at home and only do them at IPO training for the next week or 2, then commence doing them at home again.

As Tony has said too much too soon can be extremely detrimental.

ETA: Dont be scared to seek advice from the trainers at the club, thats what there ment to be there for.

Edited October 7, 2007 by Jeff Jones

[alpinebase evita]

Heya Matt I have a DVD I'm getting off Bree of that Bernard Flinks guy about building drive and prey drive and stuff that I will try and get and bring on Tuesday for you to have a look at. I think what the others have said is right, let her have fun right now and in a few months kick the training into gear. During that time you can read books and watch training DVD's and learn heaps with me ;)

yea i think that is right... but if she dosent get it not to fuss.. ill try every thing that is suggested.. and if that dosent work well you cant do much..