Teaching A Stubborn Old Dog New Tricks...and Some Basic Manners

[kateykateykatey]

Hey guys,

I hope asking this question here is appropriate.

I'm simply after some advice and suggestions on a plan of action for

My 7 year old Border Collie x 'Scrimp' has a few issues with manners when walking. He's a very clever dog, and recently I taught him how to drop (which was a challenge, because he is stubborn) and then later to roll, and roll over. He responded well to this, though lately rolling over is accompanied with some play biting of the wrist-- that I'm not sure how to discourage.

The biggest issue with Scrimp is his outside manners. When walking, he will generally heel well, and sits when I stop (usually). But he pulls at the site of another dog, to the extent that if the dog is ahead of him he is fixated, and may yelp, howl and lurch if I slow down to maintain a greater distance between us. We walk with a gentle leader, but this doesn't deter him from pulling- even though I'm sure it's uncomfortable.

I've taught him to "leave" following some instructions I read on the net (ie, presenting two fists with treats and giving the command "leave" and rewarding from the other hand when successful) but I can't get him to either take rewards on walks, or even focus that much on simple commands when on walks. He's too fixated on whatever else is around him.

I know that he learns commands well, but this is at home. It's difficult to get him to do anything while on the lead. Recently while walking I've tried to get him to sit and drop-- just to get him used to basic commands while not at home, but this he does with reluctance, he's interested in whether or not another dog will show up! :rolleyes:

I know dog obedience classes are an obvious answer here, but what to do while walking? It's not practical for me to turn around and march off in the opposite direction at the sight of another dog and Scrimp's bad behaviour-- I'd never get anywhere (and we walk my daughters to school and back). Any other suggestions? I think he needs to be socialised more (again, dog obedience) but what else?

He's been to DO before, and because we got him when he was 2 we think he's had training previously, so I imagine he's going to fit in to that well again, but I've got to figure out how to fit it in the timetable between kids' sports, dance, my sport and my partner's sports... it's on the to-do list.

Thanks in advance... sorry for the long post...

Edited October 3, 2007 by kateykateykatey

[kateykateykatey]

I should add that we got Scrimp from Sandy Creek Dog Sanctuary when he was two. I don't know if he has been socialised with other dogs, but I feel some of his pulling is from a desire for socialisation as much as some male dog dominance things. I've only seen him be at all 'aggressive' to male dogs that aren't desexed such as my brother's Viszla, who was also quite young at the time (but fully grown).

I want to iron out some of these issues before introducing another dog in to the household, because I'm not keen on walking a dog that wants to pull with another dog that might be otherwise fine on the lead... I'm not sure if they learn each other's bad habits or not?

thanks guys

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

they sure can learn each other's bad habits - I've experienced this myself.

[kateykateykatey]

they sure can learn each other's bad habits - I've experienced this myself.

oh no! Please, tell!

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Well for a start - on lead aggression and piddling up the furniture!!! Took just one naughty little male foxy to teach one or more of my other dogs ...

He sadly passed away in April but it hasn't stopped my other boy from piddling on the furniture!!!

[Erny]

I always feel as though it might be seen that I'm on a crusade to promote the employment of trainers/behaviourists when I say this, but a picture is worth a thousand words and for that reason it would do you well to take advantage of even at least just one trainer/behaviourist consult.

Not only WHAT to do and WHEN to do it and working out WHY the dog is reactive in the first place, but coaching YOU into HOW to do what you need to do will set you off down the right track.

I could sit here and type away with a "do this and when that happens do that" ...... but it might not be the ideal method for your dog nor even be something you can manage. I couldn't tell that until and unless I saw the dog. And I also wouldn't know if you were applying effective handling technique or timing even if you did follow written instruction. This in itself can be vital to the success (or not) of a behaviour modification/training method.

But, what you do need to do is work at distance so that the reactivity your dog exhibits is manageable - not only from a handling perspective but also from your dog's mental capability perspective. If we work at a proximity to the stimuli that is too intense for the dog to cope with, learning capabilities go out the window and any effort is generally a waste of time, if not detrimental. If you work too far away, any effort will likely be a waste of time towards overcoming your dog's problems, but at least isn't likely to be as detrimental as it would to do the opposite.

Do you belong to a good training school who might be able to organise a prive lesson for you?

Edited October 3, 2007 by Erny

[Erny]

It's not practical for me to turn around and march off in the opposite direction at the sight of another dog and Scrimp's bad behaviour-- I'd never get anywhere (and we walk my daughters to school and back). Any other suggestions? I think he needs to be socialised more (again, dog obedience) but what else?

Regard walking your dog with your daughter to school - pleasantly and with no dog/dog issues - as your ultimate goal. To achieve that goal there are likely to be things that you need to change and that are inconvenient and to a degree impractical in the meantime. Don't think of it as something that must be forever, but merely a direction away from the 'norm' until you can return to your usual routine, but in a more ideal and pleasant way.

Edited October 3, 2007 by Erny

[kateykateykatey]

It's not practical for me to turn around and march off in the opposite direction at the sight of another dog and Scrimp's bad behaviour-- I'd never get anywhere (and we walk my daughters to school and back). Any other suggestions? I think he needs to be socialised more (again, dog obedience) but what else?

Regard walking your dog with your daughter to school - pleasantly and with no dog/dog issues - as your ultimate goal. To achieve that goal there are likely to be things that you need to change and that are inconvenient and to a degree impractical in the meantime. Don't think of it as something that must be forever, but merely a direction away from the 'norm' until you can return to your usual routine, but in a more ideal and pleasant way.

that's a good point. Just that I watch "it's me or the dog" and Victoria whats-her-name always recommends marching off in the other direction as a response to pulling and unsociable behaviour, but that's always in the park...it occurs to me now that this is *practice* and that of course it's necessary. (silly that I hadn't thought of that sooner )

Out of interest, how much does a session with a behaviourist/trainer cost?

[Erny]

I've PM'd you, KKK.