Erny Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) Thanks everyone. You've written some really lovely words. I appreciate them although modesty demands that I be a bit 'd. Honestly - I'm not worried about the emailer .... not at all. But I will find out who the person is, just because . What a stupid statement to make anyway ..... along the lines of I don't like you because you are friends with him. Takes me back to my pre-school days :rolleyes:. Edited October 3, 2007 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Mmmmmm..... Multiple identities, anti a certain piece of training equipment...... Would I be right in guessing that the suspect is basically non-ohmic but has some ohmic material between the ears? :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos Central Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I hate people that say s**t without any thought.....dont listen to them Erny.....you have helped me on several occasions....one of them probably saved my dogs life......you are a good person and you know more about dogs and training them than the moron who sent you the email.....keep faith .....as long as you know your right they dont have a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fit for a King Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Erny/Denis, I have just read the story of Oscar the Airedale - from the prose that preceeded the links I was expecting that poor Oscar had been PTS or something because people had given rotten advice and the owner had chosen that path. After reading the 4 pages I have to admit complete confusion....the dog was still alive...doing some things better...owner happier...posters most unhappy as they argued amongst themselves...... Ah what am I missing? And why would it be termed the "Tregedy of Oscar?" - I'm not having a go I am just genuinely confused what point you are trying to make.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesomil Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Would I be right in guessing that the suspect is basically non-ohmic but has some ohmic material between the ears? Erny, you are great and we all know that. Ignore this poor, sad person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 Ah what am I missing? And why would it be termed the "Tregedy of Oscar?" - I'm not having a go I am just genuinely confused what point you are trying to make.... That's a question for Denis, FFAK. I don't think I've read the story in question yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 Would I be right in guessing that the suspect is basically non-ohmic but has some ohmic material between the ears? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I can sum it up in one phrase...green eyed , someone does not like it that so many of us can think outside the square and can see the sense in methodologies advocated and taught by the likes of Erny and Denis. How truly juvenile and unwarranted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Carthy Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) MitaI have no idea what/who AR is..... It means Animal Rights Radical Extremists, theirs a lot of them in the ‘positive’ dog training chaos we have here and you can be certain they are covertly working their too. Their goal is to eliminate all animals from domestic captivity or as they call it ‘liberate’ them, they are running very rich charities which all seem to be connected to a main one called PETA, the director of that has bequeathed her foot to be hollowed out and put on display somewhere as some crazy statement about how we treat animals. You can be almost certain that your government has them under a very watchful eye, same as US and Europe for funding and taking part in domestic terrorism, here there are lots of them in the positive training areas of dog training, the dogs get so messed up and difficult to live with the owners end up putting them in rescue, it’s one of their methods to put people off owning dogs. Our government tightened the laws up on them about 18 months ago and around 3 months ago we had the first dawn police raids under the new which rounded up over 200 of them, some of their activities in US under the guise of one or other of their related charities has cost thousands of dogs lives. If you go to my post at the link below and scroll down to the links to APDT & PETA and read up on some of stories about them, make n mistake you will have them there. They are easy to identify, instead of using positive reinforcement in their training they are obsessed with the ‘words’ ‘positive training’ & ‘reward’ – they bombard the words at people which are used out of context with training anything and try and attack those who don’t use ‘just reward’, but, their attacks never have any logic or display a rational person behind them. Scroll to the links below the text on the post at the lonk below showing reports on PETA extremist activity – the person named in the post a radical Association Pet Dog Trainers UK member, they started here around 1996, they banned themselves from using e-collats 2 years before modern e-collars were invented, the person in the main body of the post itself has said on a closed forum that she would kill a dog before using an e-collar and yet she does not have a clue how to use any e-collar, its when naïve pet owners get caught up with these people problems start, make no mistake, you will have them there in Au and that’s why Ern was subject to this email. Scroll to PETA links http://z7.invisionfree.com/dogadvicetraini...hp?showforum=75 Edited October 3, 2007 by Denis Carthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Carthy Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Fit For a KingI have just read the story of Oscar the Airedale - from the prose that preceeded the links I was expecting that poor Oscar had been PTS or something because people had given rotten advice and the owner had chosen that path. After reading the 4 pages I have to admit complete confusion....the dog was still alive...doing some things better...owner happier...posters most unhappy as they argued amongst themselves...... Denis The case is in 4 parts, I have only got two online so far, yes at the stage its at it will be confusing, sorry but the other posts will come later on that one and put ot together, I suppose one lead I can give which you would not understand in Au is that pet owners are being scammed all over the UK forums by commercial 'positive' trainers posing as ordinary pet owners and all kinds of things and then referring naive pet owners to a commercial collegue in their part of UK or themselves, UK forums are a nightmare for any naive pet owner, dogs are messed up all over the place, nothing like dol here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Carthy Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) Ernnot at all. But I will find out who the person is, just because biggrin.gif. What a stupid statement to make anyway ..... along the lines of I don't like you because you are friends with him. Takes me back to my pre-school days Denis AAAaahhhhhhhhhh................yes, my guess is the person had a bit of a confrontation with me and crops up on the dol post below from a couple of years ago - childlike was the key if I got it right although I still don't rule out some of our wingeing poms from my cranks zoo. http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...73223&st=75 Edited October 3, 2007 by Denis Carthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Carthy Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) As an afterthought - to sum these cranks up in simple terms, legible in Oz, your amazing Dr Worthless was only the prototype - these cranks are the upgraded models Edited October 3, 2007 by Denis Carthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) MitaI have no idea what/who AR is..... It means Animal Rights Radical Extremists, theirs a lot of them in the ‘positive’ dog training chaos we have here and you can be certain they are covertly working their too. Thanks, for the full explanation, Denis. Just one question....an honest one.....not having a go at you. Do you believe that positive dog training is just one of the methods people can use.....rather than the only one? And that other methods are needed when circumstances warrant it? And do the AR folk believe in only one method? I've been lucky that the dogs we've owned have responded fine to a positive approach (sweet shelties & tibetan spaniels!!!). But I've been very aware from reading the Behaviour Forum that people have been at the end of their tether trying to deal with really tough problems with some dogs. Other strategies have had to be applied to save the dog from being dumped or PTS. Edited October 3, 2007 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patch Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Ok I have no idea what this is all about (and I probably don't want to from the sounds of it! ). I think it's very unfortunate that someone sent Erny an unpleasant email - I have always enjoyed your posts Erny. I also agree with Erny's comment in her other thread about the ability here for people to respect differences of opinions and techniques and while I understand Denis that you are passionate in your beliefs and appear to have a history of being targeted for them, can I remind you that not every person who believes in positive reinforcement training is a crank and a PETA supporter. Let's not lose that spirit of 'to each their own'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Carthy Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) Mita Do you believe that positive dog training is just one of the methods people can use..... Denis Hi Mita - Firstly I have to aplogise in advance for not having much time to give detailed replies, must get dog out and the off for a couple of hours. 'Positive dog training' is not a method of training anything, the words are from operant learning theory all that means is that any animal learns something as the result or ANY external stimuli present in the environment - the key is 'any stimuli' - the words themselves are stimuli to humans and if used prolifically on individuals are 'emotionally' influencial - we respond/are attracted towards anything said to be 'positive/ly' - we are avoid anything which in the normal use of the word is 'negative' - both these words are technical terms from the operant learning theory - people who are swamped with these words by dog trainers for their own commercial ends are responding to the words - they are told they using 'positive' methods but they are not, it makes people feel good but it is not a method of training. Sorry I just have no more time right now but I did touch on this very thing on Dol a year or so ago - if you read it some of it might put a few things together in answer to your question, link below - Denis Carthy - begins 3rd Jun 2006 - 06:10 AM http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...64707&st=15 Edited October 3, 2007 by Denis Carthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Carthy Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Just to add - there is no training method uses more 'positive reinforcement', in the REAL meaning of the term, than when an e-collar is one of the training aids with any appropriate dog, which is why the dogs learn fast, are more reliable and never have learning difficulties - but they are used to conform to te real meanings of the words 'positive' or 'reward' and not the incorrect, and therefor irrelevant, way they are used in whats called 'positive training', thats a commercial product not a method of training anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fit for a King Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Thanks Denis - thought I was going a little barmy there - couldn;t figure out what was going on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Thanks for that, Denis. When I was typing my post, I was thinking it would be important to know precisely what was meant by a' positive approach' as a dog training techncial term. I was using it in the simplest sense....to mean just training by providing either, reward (attention or whatever)....or no reward ( no attention or whatever). With the compliant, biddable shelties & tibbies I've had, something as simple as that has worked for basic everyday training. But I'm very aware that there are much tougher problems & challenges in training. I'll follow the link you gave. 'Ta muchly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laax Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 don't let it get too you erny there is a few ppl on here that specialise on shaking your hand while stabbing ou in the back with the other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 don't let it get too you erny there is a few ppl on here that specialise on shaking your hand while stabbing ou in the back with the other Well, I can promise you that this person did not "shake my hand" here on DOL either . He is a coward and shows no strength to the conviction of his own reasonings (and gets his facts wrong so it's pretty hard to recognise any credibility to his comments anyway), but at least he hasn't shown himself up to be two-faced in that respect Thanks Laax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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