Advice Sought

[wednesday]

My brother-in-laws Bullmastiff has had issues with behaviours for quite some time. She's sometimes afraid - she gets overly excited, she's just not a very 'together' dog. She's from a BYB - but she's absolutely gorgeous - and has had no issues with any people (grown ups). She has also never had any issues with their own kids, but in the past nieces and nephews have really teased her when she was younger, and she wasn't the same since then with strange kids BUT she's never, ever bitten anyone - until today.

Today she bit his son (my nephew) on his hand. It wasn't a full on attack, and there was a bone near her, but nonetheless, it was a single bite that did draw blood (not just a nip). No one is really sure what happened, as they kids were unsupervised with her at that moment.

I honestly don't believe that with 3 kids, the eldest being nearly 5, that she can remain in that environment. Not only because of this incident, but my brother-in-law does not have the time to put in with her to try to stabilise her, and even if he did, he doesn't feel like he trusts her anymore, and he must put his family first.

The advice I'm seeking now - is it worth while trying to find a home for her where someone with experience can put in the time to try to rehabilitate her? Or should she be euthanised?

Obviously this is heartbreaking for the family, and even my nephew who she bit is crying for my brother-in-law not to get rid of her but realistically - she can't stay there.

What should they do?

[PAX]

If they could a find her a home with very responsible, knowledgable dog owners and no children then I would rehome her but I don't think those sort of homes are easy to find.

IMO a BM should be excellent with kids and I would not have an iffy BM around children fullstop, no matter what the reason.

[arawnhaus]

Wednesday,I'm sorry to hear of this Best of luck whichever way you all decide to go.

Personally, I would PTS, because nobody can guarantee that dog will ever be around children or an adult she didn't feel comfortable with. A confidence issue by the sound of it,if you nip it in the bud now,you could well PREVENT a large attack.

People can't guarantee she will not go near children as her quality of life would be very affected if she could not go for a walk/swim or in the car etc.......

Many dogs are raised in not the Ideal of circumstance,and they don't bite or even threaten too.

I'm glad the child didn't need hospital attention.Some people let their dogs have a 'nip' at their children and because it wasn't deep or they feel it is their own fault, they keep the dog assuming it will give warning in the future and nothing will come of it.

That owner is a risk taker.I personally value a child's life more then this.

Edited September 29, 2007 by Delkerabo

[griff]

My brother-in-laws Bullmastiff has had issues with behaviours for quite some time. She's sometimes afraid - she gets overly excited, she's just not a very 'together' dog. She's from a BYB - but she's absolutely gorgeous -

Wednesday.. I think that says it all... the poor Bitch is not ' stable '

and been teased in the past by kids.. is a worry ,

she sees your Nephew as lower than her .

With so many kids, dogs etc running amok in parks on the street etc...

I would be worried that if I rehomed her another incident could incur.

Hope your Nephew heals soon and still will have a love for dogs.

[wednesday]

My brother-in-laws Bullmastiff has had issues with behaviours for quite some time. She's sometimes afraid - she gets overly excited, she's just not a very 'together' dog. She's from a BYB - but she's absolutely gorgeous -

Wednesday.. I think that says it all... the poor Bitch is not ' stable ' and been teased in the past by kids.. is a worry ,

she sees your Nephew as lower than her .

With so many kids, dogs etc running amok in parks on the street etc... I would be worried that if I rehomed her another incident could incur.

Hope your Nephew heals soon and still will have a love for dogs.

I value all your input. But I'm no less confused....

Personally - knowing this dog - I think she could make someone a really good pet IF that person has the time and the knowledge to put in with her. I honestly believe that she just needs someone who would put the time in. Generally - she is not an aggressive dog at all.... I do think that with the right handler, she'd be fine... but - do you take the risk with her before the time is put in? How do you know that a person will do the right thing and act responsibly with her until she gets to 'that' point?

Further info to hand is that the boy picked up her bone, to put her and the bone into the crate. She did not like the fact that he picked up her bone (she bit the hand that held the bone).

I do agree with you Griff - in that she thinks the kids are lower than her, and herein lies the problem. They have 3 kids - 4, 2 and 5mths. The dog needs a place with either no kids, or older kids, and one where the owner is prepared to put the time in to ensure she knows her place.

This is so difficult.... if I knew she was a dangerous menacing dog, I would advise to put the dog to sleep in a heartbeat. I have seen those sorts of dogs, and know that many of them cannot be rehabilitated, she is not one of those dogs, and that's what is difficult.

[Clyde]

It wasn't a full on attack, and there was a bone near her, .........kids were unsupervised with her at that moment.

I can understand that your brother doesn't want her around anymore but given the above circumstances I certainly wouldn't pts based on that info. I would rehome with no children and make the reason for rehoming perfectly clear to new owners. If she has endured however many years so far with children teasing her etc only to give a warning bite/nip (which it would have been for a BM or else it would have been a hell of a lot more damage IMO if the dog was serious) near a bone then she can't seriously be 'all that bad'? I don't think George would take to Grace going near one of his bones, I'm quite certain he would tell her off but he is still a great family pet. It's just about management when it comes to kids and large dogs - it's hard work but it's do-able.

[Clyde]

[Further info to hand is that the boy picked up her bone, to put her and the bone into the crate. She did not like the fact that he picked up her bone (she bit the hand that held the bone).

We posted at the same time. The child touched her bone I think the parents have to accept that the dog is not really at fault. Angus charges at Grace aggressively if she walks past him while eating. I really don't think it's fair to not accept that dogs will be protective over their food and just feed them seperately and throw out bones once initially chewed on. Certainly not worth pts anyway.... but I can understand rehoming.

[wednesday]

The more I think about it (and the more I hear about what exactly happened) the more I just think this is an incident that has occurred due to lack of supervision and nothing more.

I think that I agree with you Dru. I do understand that she does need to be out of the environment she's in, and I do understand that by brother-in-law now doesn't trust her. She can't be locked up every time the kids want to play outside (and it's not fair on her either).

So... where do I find this ideal home..... bonus is that she's already desexed - so she is a good candidate....

[Tonymc]

The best thing your Brother Inlaw could do would be to actually learn something about Dogs.

The more I see the more stunned I am about how little People who have Dogs actually know about them!!!I am stunned to that for such minor things as this that anybody would even suggest the Dog be PTS!!!!Anybody calling for the Dog to be PTS has very very little awareness!!!!

The Dog was resource guarding or looking after its Bone.This Dog is a product of its enviroment.

The key here is for the Humans involved to make change.I would say it seems lack of knowledge cmbined with the chance of change being very low,the Dog is probably better off in another Home. Tony

[wednesday]

Totally agree with you Tony....

With the info that I got after the initial phone call (and post) - I don't think she should be put to sleep.

[arawnhaus]

Given the dog bit the hand with the bone,obviously resource guarding.She needs some training,no I wouldn't PTS in this case.

If you lived with a dog and knew it rushed children near food, that animal should be taught that's not on. Alternatively NEVER put a scrap of food near dog/child....

People should accept to NEVER put a dog and it's food near where children can be........

Edited September 29, 2007 by Delkerabo

[BJean]

So... where do I find this ideal home..... bonus is that she's already desexed - so she is a good candidate....

Wednesday, from what I have read, the circumstance surrounding the need for this bullmastiff to be rehomed are very similar to an Anatolian AR are rehoming at the moment (although the ASD has only growled at a child, not attempted to bite).

In any case finding a suitable home is not impossible, it just takes a lot longer.

Perhaps if rehoming is decided upon, you could list the BM on Petrescue?

[wednesday]

thanks lilli - and yes, rehoming has now been decided upon.

[RL1]

The right new owner is out there, just have to be a little patient. I took on a rescue Rottweiler that had been abused and wasn't and still isn't 100% stable ( although only has issue's with other dogs now ) and haven't looked back. There are plenty of single / childless households like mine that will take her on.

[jesomil]

I think alot of dogs out there that have no training or leadership will be more likely to snap at someone. I think the dog could have done alot more damage had she been serious about it.

She's sometimes afraid - she gets overly excited, she's just not a very 'together' dog

Could this be due to the fact that she has no strong leader? With a new knowlegable owner who will put in the time with training she could turn into a more stable, happy dog.

Kids should never be unsupervised around dogs so this was her owners biggest mistake. I hope she finds a wonderful home.