RL1 Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 I'm really just biding my time until K9 and Erny put on their show in Victoria And hoping that K9 just maybe has room for a private consult.... Is Erny connected with K9 Force ? K9: I dont make all the bookings, but I know for a fact there is not one place before April, not one on any day...If you are serious the best thing would be to send us an email [email protected] & find out when we can see you, book that place & hang on... Once we get started with you, honestly, the results come hard & fast... I'll have a serious think about it. I just don't want to make a booking until i'm 100% sure i'm up for the drive. If i could fly down i would. Just don't know if that's possible with the dog. Anyway, i'll make a decision soon. Have you tried Craige Murray? He is probably one of the best up that way. He is on the Gold Coast. I would class him as one of the trainers/behaviourists at the top of his profession in Australia.http://www.dogschool.com.au No i haven't tried him.Not going to either. You get to a point where you say to yourself enough is enough. I had high hope's for The Pawman and after only having an initial assessment, it was a big let down. I thought that was it. What more can you do. I think after that i gave up for the rest of the year..........If i do go ahead and make the trip to K9 Force and don't get the results, i think i'll be throwing in the towel for good this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkS Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I understand how you feel RottyLover1. But a phone call costs nothing. Craige would be at the top of my list in QLD, and possibly Australia, and this advice is from someone (me) with over 28 years professional dog training and behaviour experience. Calling Craige maybe the break you need. If you are ok waiting another 3 months, then that is your choice. But you must also look at it from the dogs point of view.. Are you really doing what is best for him? I know the Pawman, and know he would only offer the most appropriate advice. Sometimes we must face the truth no matter how much we block our ears to it. I do not know what the problem is with your Rotty or the problems you are facing, as I haven't read every entry in this post. But I am sure you will make the right decision at the appropriate time. I hope it all works out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carloslex Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I Don't know the Pawman, although I have heard of him through the Training clubs I have been involved with, from what I have heard I agree, he would only offer professional advise based on the facts put in front of him, he would not back away from a dog with a challenge without just cause. Graige is also constanlty talked about here in Brisbane and has a good reputation although I personally have not been involved with him. Martin Dominic at K9 here in Brisbane I can also vouch for, I did a lot of Security training with him with one of my past Rotties. His knowledge is great, his commitment to get the job done and done properly at a reasonable price is brilliant. He also exports dogs he has trained to all around the world. He also is worth a call, as the last post said, a phone call only costs 30 cents and a bit of time. It all comes back to time and making the commitment to work with the relevant trainers advise and complying with what the professionals have suggested. As Steve has said, it will take more than one session and some commitment, and then the rewards will be there. Good luck, to both you and your boy Rottielover01, lets get this problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL1 Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 It all comes back to time and making the commitment to work with the relevant trainers advise and complying with what the professionals have suggested.As Steve has said, it will take more than one session and some commitment, and then the rewards will be there. Good luck, to both you and your boy Rottielover01, lets get this problem solved. You might mean well, but i can't reply to anymore of your post's. I think you need to read some of my previous post's. I've made time, made the commitment and spent the money to try and sort him out, in between the recommendations of having him put down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carloslex Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Sorry, sounds like I have offended you. I wasn't expecting you to respond, I am just making general comments in a general forum about a problem that is being discussed. I have read all that is "ALL" of this thread and quite a few times I might add, to make sure the opinion I had formed and commented was not out of line and based onlyh on the few facts presented. Numerous times people have asked what the actual problem is with your dog and you have not responded? therefore It just keeps coming back to the same questions because they are not being answered properly, one session with Dogtec instead of the three that they insisited on would be needed will defiantely not fix the problem, Steve is better than Dogtec no doubt but even he has suggested in his offer to you that more than one session will be required, The Pawman would have given you a true assesment / opinion based on years of expereince and professiolism second to none here in Brisbane. Teamwork or metro although great may have helped but would have taken time, Steve has been very generous and is commited to fixing your problem and has bent over backwards to offer help as well. It just seems you are very commited to fixing the problem but may not have followed through on everything that was requierd to actually fix it. If I have previosly offended you then I do aplogise in advance for this possibly offending you as well. We just want to see a happy ending. and apart from that, we can all learn from your experience and possibly point others with similar problems in the right direction rather than have to struggle as you have with so many trainers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBella Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 It just seems you are very commited to fixing the problem but may not have followed through on everything that was requierd to actually fix it.We just want to see a happy ending. and apart from that, we can all learn from your experience and possibly point others with similar problems in the right direction rather than have to struggle as you have with so many trainers. This is my opinion RottyLover is not accountable to anyone but himself and his dog in how they try to fix the problem. You are making some wild assumptions about the actions RL is willing to take. RL is also not obliged to share his experience with the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL1 Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 RottyLover is not accountable to anyone but himself and his dog in how they try to fix the problem. You are making some wild assumptions about the actions RL is willing to take. RL is also not obliged to share his experience with the forum. Honestly i don't mind sharing everything. If i do go and see Steve at K9 Force i will post here exactly what i thought and how it went. He's free to post here his thoughts on myself and my dog....... It just annoys me a bit when people make out i haven't followed through with instructions or given it a go, such is the case with "carloslex" . I spent many Sunday mornings, every Sunday morning travelling north to Teamwork. The Pawman's opinion was he couldn't help my dog, so obviously that's as far as that went. I left the dog for over a week with Gary Jackson at Multi National K9. He was more interested in buying my Rotty....and DogTech, well, no comment on that one. Apart from DogTech, i have followed through and given it a go. I have spent more time and money than most people would. All that plus the comments about getting rid of the dog and PTS thrown in to complicate the situation more. I could've taken the easy way out, but i happen to like the dog and want to see an improvement.........It's like everything, there are mechanics and then there are good mechanics, there are builders and then there are good builders. The same applie's to dog trainers. The hasn't been thrown up just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carloslex Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Cool mate, go for your life. As you say, there are Mechanics and there are Mechanics, there are also personalities and there are personalities, we don't like everyone we meet, therefore not all trainers are for all people, that doesn't make them a bad trainer thats all. therefore we shouldn't leave an assumption for everyone to read that might give a bad rap if it is not warranted Hope it all works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 (edited) ... there are also personalities and there are personalities, we don't like everyone we meet, therefore not all trainers are for all people, that doesn't make them a bad trainer thats all. therefore we shouldn't leave an assumption for everyone to read that might give a bad rap if it is not warranted Did I miss something? Did Rottylover01 mention a personality clash with any of the trainer/behaviourists who have already been consulted? All the best RL. Good on you for exhausting your options. I know it gets hard to know when to draw the line, but I am keen to know how you get on with whichever decision you make, and even keener to hear some happy news from you in relation to some success . Edited January 25, 2008 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carloslex Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 no. You didn't miss anything just using the same sort of logic in return. I just keep coming back to the fact that I don't like negativity, just looking for a something we can all learn from without berating any particular individual. Rottielover 01 has done a sterling jod indeed, he has tried four trainers in Brisbane, none could fix his problem, or help him, therefore no other trainers in Brisbane are any good. He now needs to go to Sydney, Steve has a great reputation so he will get the result that is needed and has been exceptionally generous with his offers of help. Lets put this one to an end, fix the dog and keep everyone happy..... Please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carloslex Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I will try to make this my last post on this subject... I know what Rottielover 01 is going through but to a lesser extent. As posted previously I have a rottie that was showing serious signs of aggression, I went to clubs, tried to desensitise him, it helped but didn't fix it, I consulted Val Bonny, I didn't like her technique so I didn't pursue that line of training (but this doesn't give me the right to say she was a waste of time, I simply didn't agree with her ways for me and my boy) , I then Used one of the trainers that Rottielover01 used and after a bit of work I now have a dog that is stable, I can walk off lead through a crowd and past other dogs without the fear of him lunging or biting. I will admit he is still not perfect, but that is down to me and how much effort I put into it and how much I followed what I was taught to do. I can not talk highly enough of this individual and his commitment to getting my boy to an acceptable level that I can now walk him and be proud of him without the fear of what he might do. Although this did not work for one individual it did work for me, so just becasue 1 person found this trainer to not suit them it does not neceassarily make that trainer a bad trainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 (edited) Although this did not work for one individual it did work for me, so just becasue 1 person found this trainer to not suit them it does not neceassarily make that trainer a bad trainer. I don't think anyone is arguing that, Carloslex. Was it established that you both used the same trainer, or are you referring to it being the same franchise? I'm not saying this of your trainer Carloslex - of whom it is clear you think a lot of - but there is some food for thought to be had here. If (eg) one trainer knows (eg) one way of dealing with behaviour, at some stage that one trainer is going to have a success. It is how many successes that one trainer has with how many different dogs that tells the story. Edited January 25, 2008 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL1 Posted January 27, 2008 Author Share Posted January 27, 2008 If (eg) one trainer knows (eg) one way of dealing with behaviour, at some stage that one trainer is going to have a success. It is how many successes that one trainer has with how many different dogs that tells the story. Could not have put it any better..... Apparently i am negative and don't show any commitment to my dog. I've tried home visit's, travelled up north every single Sunday for months, tried live in training and tried The Pawman, who has 30 years experience. Not to mention the $$$ it's cost me. Now seriously thinking of a 25 hour round trip, taking time off work, losing money in the process and spending more money on my dog. If all that is negative and shows a lack of commitment then i guess i'm guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bear Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 I take my hat off to you Rotty Lover ...Ive been following this thread and Im in awe of your commitment to your dog. The only thing you're guilty of is never giving in. Good luck I hope everything works out for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carloslex Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 THats right Rottielover01, we have been saying tha same thing over and over to you. Congratulations and keep up the good effort , you have a very lucky dog to have someone that is so trying! not everyone is as commitred to our dogs future as we are. I also commend the 4 trainers you have tried, they have a great reputation here in Brisbane with huge succes rates, Bar possibly one, (but then I am not into live in training for my dog either). Unfortunately they just did't work out for you and your dog. that doesn't make them bad trainers and that doesn't particulaarly mean you are a bad student either, all four of them just didn't happen to be suitable for you and your boy. Again, good for you for making the effort that most of us like you, wouldn't even think twice about making for a dog / Mate that they love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 <snip>I also commend the 4 trainers you have tried, they have a great reputation here in Brisbane with huge succes rates, Bar possibly one, (but then I am not into live in training for my dog either). Unfortunately they just did't work out for you and your dog. that doesn't make them bad trainers and that doesn't particulaarly mean you are a bad student either, all four of them just didn't happen to be suitable for you and your boy. <snip> I have been following this for some time and really don't understand where you are coming from. The Pawman, from what I gather, said the dog could not be rehabilitated and should be PTS. The OP wants a second opinion (as would I!!!!) and has been highly recommended to try K9 Force (of whom I have little knowledge other than what I've read on this forum). What's the problem? You mentioned that the 4 trainers the OP has tried all have a great reputation in Brisbane - having just re-read the thread, the OP only originally mentioned 2 by name - DogTech and The Pawman. Jane Harper was recommended but the OP wants to wait and see K9 Force. The OP tried a club in Caboolture and only named it when asked by you: carloslex: "What club did you use? I have tried a few here in Brisbane and my own individual opinion?" Rottielover01: "Sorry, it was at club grounds, the trainers were TeamWork Dog Obedience. I don't have anything against Alex or Maureen, both very nice people, just didn't help my situation." The live-in trainer was never identified so I don't see how you could have an opinion on their reputation. carloslex: You are right, but I had tha same sort of issues with my Rottie, I'm sorry, but there are many different levels of aggression. You can't possibly equate your dog's behavioural issues with the OP's dog unless you have personally assessed the behaviour as a trained professional. caroslex: I am just concerned from my experience that He may have not have given the training with these other people a full chance, from my personeal experience it just doesnt sound right and therefore they possibly shouldn't be publicly riduculed for failing. Team work are one of the best clubs aroung bar none, Pawman has a great reputatuion and Dogtech helped me when others couldn't, so I am surprised about his problems with these people. So, do you mean to say you have had personal experience with these 3 trainers? They haven't been "publicly ridiculed". The OP said: The Pawman who was upfront and professional the trainers were TeamWork Dog Obedience. I don't have anything against Alex or Maureen, both very nice people, just didn't help my situation. You yourself said: I also have been to Team work, they are lovely people, but are an obedience club, they do not claim to be behaviourists. The only trainer that the OP spoke negatively about was DogTech: I tried Dog Tech in the past but in my opinion that was a waste and i wanted to try group training, however the instructors wouldn't allow my boy to take part with the other dogs. What do you know about the franchise? Who was your trainer? How sure are you that you both saw the same person? This one has got me thinking... Rottielover01: One trainer did tell me he admired me for taking him on........ carloslex replied: That would have to be DogTech, I know I am pushing their barrow, but I really think you should get back in touch with them, he claims he never walks away from a client, and happily refunds money if you are not happy with the service, did you do all three sessions with him? Remembering that at one point the OP said: Money hasn't been the issue I think it's time to let this (3 month old) thread go I look forward to your further updates Rottylover01...perhaps you should start a fresh thread. And yes, I do have a lot of time on my hands at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 I look forward to your further updates Rottylover01... As do I, RL. Hat off to you for determination and ensuring that all that can be tried will be tried. I really wish for you and your dog a positive breakthrough that will see you with a light at the end of the tunnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carloslex Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 I think you are right, can we please let this tread go. HE has mentioned the live in trainer in the thread, he has mentioned the pawman, he has mentioned TeamWork (who are Alex and Maureen who also operate at Carseldine, the other grounds are only 15 - 20 minutes drvie away, he Has mentioned Dogtec, and as far as I know their is only 1 dogtech person in Brisbane. I have been trying to avoid promoting an individual trainer, I know all of these people because I have been involved with their training over the last 23 years with my dogs. Along with Metro and also Val Bonnies and Matin at K9, plus one other that I prefer not to mention because I have nothing positive to say about them (which is a personnel opinion only) We have all suggested he use K9 Force as his next step, we are certainly not ridiculing him or puting Rottielover01 down, quite the opposite. The bottom line is that I am just against knocking a club or an individual based on one expereince. thats it. Rottielover01 has done a tremendous job and is determined to get the problem sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkS Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 (edited) I have no doubt that Rottylover01 has tried his damndest to try and fix his dog behavioural problems. And I congratulate him for that. What concerns me, is that are ALL the trainers he has been to wrong? Are they all coming to pretty close to the same opinion in regards to the dogs behaviour? Everyone is saying to Rottielover1 to get a second opinion... ummm ..how many second opinions has he had so far? Has anyone considered that this case is a mismatch between owner and dog. I remember one thread Rottylover01 said that Gary Jackson wanted to buy his Rotty... That already tells me a lot about this dog and its nature. Are we looking at a rank dominant dog (alpha) that Rottylover1 really doesn't have the experience or maybe confidence to establish packleadership with this dog? Does this dog really need to go to a more experienced handler or trainer? Sometimes when we love something or someone so much, we don't want to give up on them, when in most cases its what we must do for the thing or person we love so dearly. Sometimes we can't see past our own emotions. Holding on in such situations causes more pain than eventually letting go does. When emotions are involved, it can be very hard to make decisions based on logic. Nobody would sugest putting the dog to sleep if an alternative can be found. Maybe this dogs true calling in life is to 'work', and with a handler that has experience with this type of dog. Are we looking at whats best for Rottylover01's emotional ties, or what is best for the dog? I certainly believe that none of these trainers he has seen already, would have suggested giving the dog up, unless it was truly warranted. Sometimes decisions that go against our emotions are so hard to make. But unfortunately all through life we must continually make decsiions that we don't like, but must make because that is the best solution. If owner and/or dog are in a continuous state of stress.. Then holding on is not being fair to either Rottylover01 or the dog! I feel for you Rottylover01, I really do. I know how dificult it can be to make such a hard decision, if that is what is required. You must make a decision based on whats best for your dog, not the emotional attachment you have for the dog. Love has no ties.... I wish you all the best. Edited January 27, 2008 by MarkS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL1 Posted January 27, 2008 Author Share Posted January 27, 2008 I have no doubt that Rottielover1 has tried his damndest to try and fix his dog behavioural problems. And I congratulate him for that.What concerns me, is that are ALL the trainers he has been to wrong? Are they all coming to pretty close to the same opinion in regards to the dogs behaviour? Everyone is saying to Rottielover1 to get a second opinion... ummm ..how many second opinions has he had so far? Has anyone considered that this case is a mismatch between owner and dog. I remember one thread Rottielover1 said that Gary Jackson wanted to buy his Rotty... That already tells me a lot about this dog and its nature. Are we looking at a rank dominant dog (alpha) that Rottylover1 really doesn't have the experience or maybe confidence to establish packleadership with this dog? Does this dog really need to go to a more experienced handler or trainer? Sometimes when we love something or someone so much, we don't want to give up on them, when in most cases its what we must do for the thing or person we love so dearly. Sometimes we can't see past our own emotions. Holding on in such situations causes more pain than eventually letting go does. When emotions are involved, it can be very hard to make decisions based on logic. Nobody would sugest putting the dog to sleep if an alternative can be found. Maybe this dogs true calling in life is to 'work', and with a handler that has experience with this type of dog. Are we looking at whats best for Rottielover1's emotional ties, or what is best for the dog? I certainly believe that none of these trainers he has seen already, would have suggested giving the dog up, unless it was truly warranted. Sometimes decisions that go against our emotions are so hard to make. But unfortunately all through life we must continually make decsiions that we don't like, but must make because that is the best solution. If owner and/or dog are in a continuous state of stress.. Then holding on is not being fair to either Rottielover1 or the dog! I feel for you Rottielover1, I really do. I know how dificult it can be to make such a hard decision, if that is what is required. You must make a decision based on whats best for your dog, not the emotional attachment you have for the dog. Love has no ties.... I wish you all the best. Good post really. What you've said is how i would be thinking if i was reading this thread about someone else. However it's really not the case. I can answer all your concerns. ( 1 ) All the trainers i've been to have a different idea on how to address the problem, be it the type of collar/lead to use or the reason the problem exists. ( 2 ) RE : Gary Jackson . I've since found out it's common for him to ask this. I see an ad in the Courier Mail on a regular basis wanting male Rotts and GS dogs, with the name Gary and a phone # for the exact area he's in. He asked me several time's upon pick up of the dog, that he wanted to buy him. It's all about making money and sending these dogs overseas. ( 3 ) I'm not new to owning and handling Rottweilers. The dog knows his place and has never tried to dominate me. It's when he's outside in public in unfamiliar surroundings that he doesn't listen and pulls on the lead ect, and wants to get to other dogs. It all relate's back to his original owners severe bashing and lack of socialisation given to the dog. ( 4 ) Only The Pawman suggested the dog wasn't suitable for a domestic environment ( 5 ) Neither the dog nor i am in a state of stress. The dog has a good life. I simply would like to be able to take him out more and do the normal things you do such as walking................. I'm not annoyed at your comments at all, just wanted to try and explain the situation...................................I agree with the earlier comments, maybe this thread should be closed, i'm sure everyone is sick of hearing about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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