Dog Whisperer Question

[Lab_Rat]

Its good to see that were not all sheep!

I enjoy watching both Cesar and Jan working with dogs, but I think ( and this is only my opinion) that its because the pair of them have that "thing" that most of the rest of us mere mortals only dream of having!

I think like with most training (of any animals), they have their +'ve and -'ves. And what I percieve to be those + and - things, others will see as their - and +'ves. Not everything works for everyone, which would make for a pretty boring existence.

I am not even close to being a dog trainers a$$ :rofl:, but having a rambunctious, independent, smartalec ridgeback (my first rr was lulling me into a false sense of knowledge by being the perfect dog, Pffft) I am certainly learning what it means having to be an effective leader! And that I need to be that leader ALL the time not just when i can be bothered.

Unless I am calm and assertive, the big red dog does what it pretty well likes! When I lose it, she does her own thing, and I dont blame her. Who wants to take any notice of an idiot human yelling and carrying on. I have only just "got it" in the last few weeks! Talk about thick.

It came to me one night while I was trying to get to sleep, thinking about a horse we are selling who has been trained almost 100% with Parelli Natural Horsemanship, with a bit of Monty Roberts chucked in. It was like getting a whack across the back of the head! I got this image in my head of me and said horse in a rather difficult situation we encountered a while ago, which included a road, alpacas and a double trailered bIg truck. Somehow I remained calm throughout the entire episode, and no-one got hurt!

It was after this vision I suddenly realised, and envisioned, my dog needs a "rock". She needs me to be calm, coz if were both being nutters who knows what to do? Just like the horse training.

I hope this doesnt seem too OT, or too "airy-fairy", but I get the feeling that people think that being that leader that everyone talks about is dead easy.

Its so not! Until your brain (or maybe subconsious) "gets" it, its so difficult. Jeeez, now Im sounding like some eedjit evangilist! Sorry!

Another thing I have learned, from my breeder. It is far better to have your dog respect, then love you, rather than just love you without respect.

Now Ive typed all this, Im a bit apprehensive to press the "add reply" button. I dont want to get shot down in flames for my inarticulate opinions and lack of knowlegde. Maybe this will make sense to someone out there, I know I love reading others opinions and ways.....Here goes..

RG

[Erny]

I suddenly realised, and envisioned, my dog needs a "rock".

I've singled this part of your post out, RG ..... but what a great post overall.

It is far better to have your dog respect, then love you, rather than just love you without respect.

And this part. The "respect" you speak of RG is more likely to be the "love" a dog feels, if we can guess at interpreting in a non-anthropomorphic way. Many people don't 'get' that, and 'tis where they go wrong .....

ETA: Kudos to your dog's breeder for giving you these words.

Edited October 5, 2007 by Erny

[Lab_Rat]

I suddenly realised, and envisioned, my dog needs a "rock".

I've singled this part of your post out, RG ..... but what a great post overall.

It is far better to have your dog respect, then love you, rather than just love you without respect.

And this part. The "respect" you speak of RG is more likely to be the "love" a dog feels, if we can guess at interpreting in a non-anthropomorphic way. Many people don't 'get' that, and 'tis where they go wrong .....

ETA: Kudos to your dog's breeder for giving you these words.

Wow! Thanks Erny.

Yes, Ive only just learned about the whole "anthropomorphic" thing, and how damaging it can be with our dogs!

RG

[Fit for a King]

stevieq said "i just dont like CM, mainly because of the less savory techniques that happen in his dog training facillity."

what did you mean by this??? Are you implying he mistreats his dogs?

[persephone]

Ridgy Girl... your post was certainly NOT inarticulate!!

That "ahHa" moment often takes a while to hit most of us...but you KNOW when it does

[MolassesLass]

what did you mean by this??? Are you implying he mistreats his dogs?

Hadn't heard anything myself but a Google search came up with some stuff.

The San Jose Mercury News reported today that television producer Flody Suarez is suing Cesar Millan, of National Geographic channel's "The Dog Whisperer," for injuries that his dog allegedly sustained while having some behavioral problems "dealt with" at Millan's training facility. The workers in the suit are accused of placing a choke collar on the dog and overworking him on a treadmill. According to Suarez, he later found his dog, Gator, "bleeding from his mouth and nose, in an oxygen tent gasping for breath and with severe bruising to his back inner thighs."

And if you still think Cesar Millan is a good trainer, be sure to check out Pat Miller's review of his new book in the current issue of Bark magazine. If injuries and lawsuits aren't enough to convince anyone, Miller provides a clear-eyed critique of Millan's technique that dispels the myth that Millan's training techniques are safe or effective.

Though Cesar has said

"I don't know the person," Millan says. "It's not a very nice lawsuit. I didn't touch the dog. The dog was at my center."

I don't think him not being directly involved is much better for him.

Can't seem to find the outcome of the case.

[persephone]

I have only seen a couple of his shows, and unfortunately didn't enjoy watching him 'perform'.

[abcalert]

I like him, he does not say he is a trainer anyway, what he does do, and if you watch him you will see him do it, is teach people more so than the dogs, once the people are acting right, the dogs fall into line, I think many country people would never need him, they understand animals simply because they live among them, many City folk do not have this experience to fall back on and thus can learn a lot from him.

As to the law suit(s), like many I guess he has to have employees and maybe somebody messed up there, or maybe it is a case of a neurotic owner(s) exaggerating, if you were not there you can not say what happened

[Lablover]

After watching quite a few episodes of DW, it seems to me that every problem is resolved by becoming the pack leader and being calm and assertive.

Is it really that simple?

No.......yes..........and.............. it depends!!!!

Leadership certainly has its merits, no doubt about it. With retrieving trials, the dog is expected to work at long distances, sometimes under control ie a hidden retrieve, others on seen retrieves where handling is frowned upon. Yet another reason, why I think retrieving training and trialling is the most difficult for a dog (and handler).

[JJay]

The problem, I think, is that people get caught up in the words instead of what Cesar is actually demonstrating. That's why I like how he calls it calm and assertive. The words dominant and alpha just send people off on the wrong track. You really don't have to physically overcome a dog - all it comes down to is making all the decisions. It really is that simple. And it really is that instantaneous. Some dogs may take a bit longer because their owners have done such a good job of ruining them. The real problem is that people love their dogs and confuse that with being an indecisive leader. Cesar is 100% right and he has transformed dogs condemned to be destroyed but he isn't so arrogant as to say that he can cure any dog. Jan Fennell is good too but I think that Cesar is just naturally gifted at coming across the right way. The world would be a better place if all dogs were treated the Cesar Millan way. Early and comprehensive socialization is massively important. My two cents...

[BittyMooPeeb]

After watching quite a few episodes of DW, it seems to me that every problem is resolved by becoming the pack leader and being calm and assertive.

Is it really that simple?

What do the trainers on this site think of his methods?

I'm not a proffesional trainer, but I rescue and foster dogs so have trained many problem dogs. I'd have to say that it is that simple for a large number of problems - but it is *not* simple for people to alter their lives to achieve this. I say this because I often get calls after a dog goes to a new home because problem behaviour has recurred, and when I ask "Are you doing x, y and z as we discussed?" they invariably say "no".

Being calm, assertive and a pack leader requires a 'life change' in the same way that -say- losing weight and keeping it off requires a lifestyle change. Once you have achieved the changes, it can be smooth sailing - the hard part is getting there.

Susan Garrett told a story at a seminar I went to recently: She had been asked while out at dinner with friends how much time she spent on training her dogs. She answered 'only a few minutes a day' and a fellow trainer who new her said 'you lier! I've watched you and in every interaction you have with your dogs you are training them, so you train all day every day". I loved this story because that is what being the 'pack leader' (for want of another term) is all about