When To Retire........

[ness]

Following on from the thread on participating in multiple activities I thought I would pose another topic which is weighing heavily on my mind - that topic being when and what do you factor in your decisions on retiring a dog from a particular activity and when you retire them is it a gradual process or do you stop doing everything.

I have a just turned 7 year old BC girl and I am continually having various thoughts on whether I retire her at the end of the year. I just don't know she enjoys training and trialling and learning new things, has been given a complete clean bill of health by the vet (and is structurally sound still - recently been to the chiro) BUT appears to struggle even on a walk to the park so I wonder if its unfair to continue to trial her.

She complains bitterly till you take her and then just wants to perpetually hunt for food and if she isn't doing that she just isn't interested. She lies at the gate sulking and refuses to budge. She might chase her ball half a dozen times and then she will just lie back at the gate of the oval waiting to get to the other park and will act like a devil when you put her on lead to go back home. About the only thing she reserves any enthusiasm for is barking at things walking past the front but even then that is pretty limited.

Mostly she spends the day sleeping somewhere or another. She isn't seriously overweight and certainly less than she was now since I have dropped a kilo off her (she was topping out at 18.6 but is now back down to 17.6). Still a bit to get off but nothing drastic and its coming off at a steady rate.

She is my first and ONLY dog and first competition dog so I haven't been faced with this prospect before.

She still has nights were she works an absolute dream (like last night's UD ring session). However I am concerned that she just doesn't seem to care about the rest of life. She is still enthusiastic enough to train but just hates walks. She would be the only dog in the world who would consider being forced to go for a walk on leash as punishment.

In her slightly younger days she would run at least 8km a day sometimes twice a day.

I guess I am concerned that I am looking through the fact she likes training with rose coloured glasses because that is what I want to see rather then that is what she is exhibiting.

So any of you seasoned campaigners who have been through this before care to shed any light on what you use in making a decision to retire a dog.

[Vickie]

I think it's an individual decision. I retired my boys from agility at 8 for a few reasons & think it was the right thing to do. They still have a play around with it in the backyard & Zeus has been to training a couple of times but after the last time I realised that he is really past it & he won't be going back. I can't even take him along to visit b/c he still wants to do it so badly.

I think that I will recognise when it is time to retire Trim (a long way away) but if I don't, I sincerely hope that my friends will let me know. I see a number of dogs running right now that are overdue their retirement & it makes me sad to see them competing b/c I think they (the dogs) could have just as much enjoyment from recreational training over low jumps or a less strenuous activity.

Not much help, but I wouldn't take her lack of enthusiasm on walks as a sign that she's ready for retirement. There could be so many other things going on there. From all videos I have seen of her, she looks happy & if she's fit & injury free then I say keep going but be on the lookout for slow changes & tone things down as you see fit.

Edited September 26, 2007 by Vickie

[Kowai]

I'm just really getting into all the dog sports with Zach, and he just turned 6!

I hope I'll recognise when its time.. But for now if he's willing, I'm going to continue on trying new things

[office bitch]

I retired one of my dogs at the age of 8 as she was having trouble clearing jumps at her competition height. She was a very successful obedience and agility dog gaining OC as well as ADM and JDX. I don't think it bothered her being retired. I retired another dog from UD at the age of 9 as his teeth became worn and the articles distressed him. He was still an extremely competitive Open obedience and agilty and jumping dog up to the age of 10. I still run him at our clubs IAL and Auslink courses and he usually gets the fastest clear round for our club. It has bothered him being retired but I feel that he is more likely to get injured at his age, he is now 11 and the vet says that he has arthritis. I continue to give him a run at agility, but usually at a lower height because he loves it so much.

[bridgie_cat]

obviously not me (Lana = 2.5... she had better not be considering retirement!!!) - but a lady at our club is slowly retiring her 8 yo border girl - so in stages, less training, less trials (not that there are many down here!!!) - reason: old neck/back injury getting slowly worse so that she is on occasion refusing a jump ... she is still keen as anything! I would expect a really keen dog to continue jumping through some degree of pain - so IMO perhaps this dog shouldnt be jumping anymore - but regular breaks etc she does come back ok... hard call when she is so keen - but wont be doing it much longer. she is still doing obed work with her and I would expect this to continue for quite some time as there are no physical issues here and the dog is REALLY eager to work for her.

if every stubborn/lazy dog was retired...

with a clean bill of health and as long as there are no signs of pain, I would keep going!

Perhaps shorter training sessions?? or more aquatic exercise?? anything you can do re changing up exercise/training that could give her more energy/save limited energy/concentrate energy into small sessions (like in a trial situation)?

Ness has still got some good trialing years left

[JulesP]

That does sound a bit weird ness. I retired my BC girl because of injury at about 3. At 11 and quite lame etc she is still very enthusiastic about life and still really wants to work. My old dog was still quite lively up until he dies at 15.5 years. Both older dogs still want to go out for walkies, it was sad that they couldn't physically cope.

Your girl actually sounds a bit sour. If she was a horse I would say that she needs to be spelled. Maybe you could back the activities off a bit and see if she recovers her joy for life.

[ness]

My answer is spelled from what though. She worked her best obedience round in ages last night. The past two weeks at agility she has been absolutely firing (tonight was a completely different kettle of fish).

I mean I caught up with bridgie_cat on Friday and even then she was chasing her ball fine and driving through the weavers. Sure her obedience was a bit lack luster but that was probably a result of the agility first.

I just don't understand. I mean she is absolutely buggered after a walk to the local park. We did a half hour walk around the streets this morning and she came home had a huge drink and went back to bed.

Its almost as though she couldn't give a toss. Bring out a treat and she will work or get to the evening and she can be full on but forget it the rest of the time. I was chatting to some people and said Ness puts herself to bed at 7pm and you won't get a peep out of her until whenever you get up the next morning. She spends most of the day asleep so you would think she would be full of beans on a walk but nope.

The only way I can get her to exercise is to stick her on a leash and force her to walk. If I take the leash off she just stops on the track or doesn't want to continue or tries to go home.

Edited September 26, 2007 by ness

[JulesP]

Have you had blood taken etc? What are you feeding her? Has anything happened on your walks to scare her? (Brock used to run and hide when I got his lead out because he was scared of the big trucks on my road).

My dogs appear to sleep alot, even Brock (not 2 yet). I have been home all day and they have been in their beds most of the day, except a period this morning when Brock was trying to herd clouds! They came in at about 7.00 and are still sound asleep.

[ness]

No haven't had blood taken. Nothing has happened recently on walks to scare her. She is getting raw chicken necks/wings/drumsticks and whatever I use as training treats on a daily basis - so roast meat, chorizo sausage, schnitzel, tinned tuna. She also gets a teaspoon of yoghurt a day with her joint guard and fish oil capsules. Oh and a few raw carrots every now and then for good measure.

[leopuppy04]

I really can't say as i've never had to retire a dog.... yet - and both of mine better not be thinking about it any time soon!!!!

For me - retirement will loom - not on an age factor but more when it stops being 'fun' for both me and the dog. I have a feeling this will mean that Leo will retire earlier than Kinta and likewise he will retire earlier from agility than obedience. If we haven't achieved our goals (UD, ADM, JDM) that is fine, but I just want us to enjoy our time out there and not worry about what performance my dog is going to give me etc.

I know how you feel Ness- Leo sometimes offers that type of behaviour to me. Now - i've set it as a challenge. When I have periods where Leo seems a little 'lack luster' every time i've 'pushed through' and continued to train as per normal, I walk away frustrated and wondering why I do this - if it isn't fun for him, it isn't fun for me. The result was that neither the dog or myself was happy about it. So - my challenge now is 'if' I get the dog that is not interested in training I will do one of two things, dependant on the situation:

*Take them out of that run / exercise (which is what you already do)

*Heavily reward something basic - so long as it was eager (which I am sure you already do too).

I have found this has helped a lot in all aspects of training and the 'ploddy' dog I used to complain about is becoming less and less....

As for her walks - Again, Leo is the same.... sort of. He never refuses a walk - but you pick up the lead etc, he doesn't really revel in it. You let him off at the park and unless you have a toy he'll just amble along with you... thats what he likes doing etc. So - sometimes I think - well he doesn't *really* enjoy his walks does he.... but you just try and leave him behind!!! Have you ever tried (when Ness puts on the breaks when you get ready to go for a walk) simply going 'well if you don't want to come - you don't have to and leave her behind?!!?!

I don't think anyone can really say 'when' the right time to retire is. I know this is probably harder for you than it would be for me or most people here (prospect of the 'up and coming dogs'.... for example - when I begin to ponder retirement for Leo - it is likely dog # 3 will be 'in training'.... perhaps even dog #4 )....

Personally - I don't think Ness is ready for retirement yet - she is still giving you those bursts of super eager work and you probably know, deep down that she still loves the work. Maybe what she needs is a break? Less training - only doing those that she REALLY loves? Perhaps go right back and rather than 'train' just do lots of drive/ motivation work - spend some time working on Tugging, drive for food etc... so that when you do reward, those rewards mean so much more (i'm getting Leo to retrieve his food container... just for fun).... I think for us, the hardest thing is keeping training fun. I find with my dogs - it is the unpredictable 'training goodies' that keeps them eager. So I need to be creative with what I pull out of my goodie bag etc.... how I reward them, with what etc.

Don't quit yet, she still has some good runs left in her .

[BC]

I would retire my dogs when I feel they're not getting the enjoyment, or as keen to work as they once were.

If I found they were still keen, but there was too much stress on their bodies, I would possibly do something different with them at less impact, but if they're quite content playing in the yard, and lounging around I would retire them.

[Ptolomy]

My thoughts - you will know when Ness is ready to retire from obedience and agility - every session will be like pulling teeth - you will go through all your tricks on how to get her motivated and none of them will work and no matter what you try you will get the same result you now get on walks.

From what I know this is the same dog that whinges to do things, forces you to take her out and drives you nuts during the day. Maybe she needs to be retired from walks! I know I would get board walking for 1 1/2 hours each day

My old girl will be 11 in December. She is still doing obedience. I did retire her from UDX in December last year - but brought her out of retirement in June this year when I put her through a UDX training session and she didn't miss a beat. 4 week later she got her first UDX pass with 192. Every day I drive into our K9 grounds and who should start squealling with excitment - yep the 10 year old. When I say who wants to go training, who is first lined up at the door - you guessed it - the old girl. While training now is mainly maintenance and is kept very short and sweet - she still enjoys every minute of it. Like you I asked this same question "when will I know she is ready for retirement" and the consensus was - she will let me know. Not sure when that will be - but we take each day as it comes and as you know she is spoilt rotten and being an over protective mum I will be the first to recognise the signs.

[ness]

Thanks everybody for your thoughts.

Ptolomy you well know that I did "retire" her from walking but then when I found out she had stacked on the weight again I had to do something drastic to try and get it back off.

My concern is without the walks I can't get her in adequate condition to trial. She certainly needs to improve her fitness if I want to chase down some of those top scores I know she is more than capable of achieving. So its a bit of a catch 22 sure I could stop walking her and just have training sessions but she manages to stack on weight if we just do that (doing that I managed to put 1.4 kgs on her!!!!!)

As LP said I don't know if part of my worry is that yes I have nothing to "replace" in a loose sense her when she can no longer trial. I don't and am not able to get a pup at the moment so once Ness is finished there is no more.

Everybody says dogs should love there walks and but for Ness its really like pulling teeth BIG TIME.

[Natsu chan]

I didn't trial my old girl (she was mechanically unsound so it wasn't an option) so perhaps I'm not qualified to judge but she got like Ness at about the same age. Walks were so boring, but training well that was something to sit up and dance about. She had to be walked because she needed to maintain her muscle tone but she really wasn't impressed by it. You could almost hear her sigh at the very thought.

I found interspersing her walks with periods of training and taking her somewhere different for walks helped. That way the training that she adored was a reward for the walking that she wasn't too keen on. By the time she reached about 11 she had changed her tune and was back to being her silly enthusiastic self about everything.

[Tassie]

Couple of thoughts, Ness.

I would get a complete blood work up done, I think. Even if it shows everything is normal, it will be handy to have as a baseline for the future. And it may show up a problem (I was thinking along the lines of anaemia.)

Would she enjoy going biking with you? Doesn't have to be fast, and you could work up gradually, but great for conditioning, and may be a bit more interesting for her than walks.

Your question brought back nice memories. I didn't have the "when to retire" problem with my prevous BC. Sam was still competing (happily, though not very successfully ) in UD a week before he died of auto-immune haemolytic anaemia at age 12 and a half. As a 12 year old, he would sometimes be zeroed for anticipation - including the day on a DJ when the judge said, "Are you ready" and before I could answer, Sam was halfway out to the box. Then looked back as much as to say "Hmmm, something maybe not quite right there." Other times, it was a line ball decision as to whether he anticipated my response to the judge's 'Send' command in an exercise.

He couldn't compete in agility in his prime, as at 545 he was then a big dog, and couldn't manage that horrible triple spread hurdle - 760 at the back. But when the heights came down, I would put him in just for fun. He ran a Jumpers course at age 12.25 - had an absolute blast - would have Qd except I turned him too tightly onto one jump.

Oh, and one more thought - friends here have got a new lease of life in their 10 year old Golden with Co-enzyme Q10. He's looking great, and bounding round like a puppy. Might be worth investigating.

[ness]

Hey Tassie thanks for the thoughts,

Not sure about the bloods she was only at the vets about 3 weeks ago for her annual checkup and even when I explained everything they didn't suggest it.

How does one explain her I have no idea. I just did a bit of work in the yard - UD so tossing her seekback and a set of articles. She did them competently but with less enthusiasm then she has been. Then I bring her back inside thinking she just isn't with it and now she is whinging underneath the bed waiting for her afternoon walk. I don't know what to do with her .

[helen]

Good question, I think I have been wonder too as Bella is 8 in December. A few weeks ago I mentioned to a few people who have been doing obedience, agility, etc for years (3 generations) that I might retire Bella from agility soon and they thought I was mad.

Even though Bella is approaching 8 her enthusiasm just keeps improving and she is loving it so much I have to agree with them and will continue for now.

I was definately going to retire her a while ago though as she had really slowed down. I took her to a local tracking trial that had a massage lady there and she was great, after a few massages she was better than ever.

I can't imagine Bella ever being sick of walks though, being a gundog there is nothing she likes better than a walk around the neighbourhood taking in all the smells on the ground.

[Alpha]

Insofar as retiring from competition, it depends on the dogs abilities and physical needs for their age. Gem works a like dream (always has) but I was concerned about joint damage as she bolted about an agility course as she was 7 yo, so we slowly withdrew from it. She's happy working a ring, loves the attention ( I'm sure) on vets advice after x rays, she had a course of Cartrovin at 7 to help starve off the onset of any joint/arthritic problems. MY instincts stopped me jumping her at 8...didn't and hasn't stopped her!!! I retired her from obedience competition at 9. At 14 yo, she still does her best heeling when she goes to the "retired" comps at club fundays and when she has an audience. She strains at the lead to get to near the agility equipment and I see the longing in her eyes as she watches Lawson. I might have retied her too soon...I'll never be sure, I know she loves it and if she ever showed signs of not liking it..I'd stop. I really think she's one of those dream dogs who love to do things with you. We still muck about with scent discrimination and such, heeling is is for crowded places, walking nicely in front is reward for being elderly. Retrieving ANYTHING is a game for her to teach the children...."You must take the article from my mouth AFTER I sit, not before or I must return from whence I came and we have to start again" Know your dog, and you'll know when

[ness]

The same dog I posted this thread for went out and scored a 180 and second place in Open A on Saturday and then backed up on the Sunday with THE BEST trial heelwork she has ever done and another qualifier. Let me down in other places as she was just full of herself so we had lots of things I haven't encountered before like VERY high finishes which as a result were very crooked.

So ok she isn't ready to retire just yet .

[Ptolomy]

And now I have this offically in writing - so will throw it at you everytime you even mention retiring her in the next 12 months!