Suggestions For Figure 8 Training - Help In Keeping Dogs Att. On Me

[Gamby]

Hi

I need some suggestions on keeping the dogs attention on me especially while doing the figure 8 exercise.

The main problem is when turning to the right, he checks out the area instead of keeping up with me, then the lead goes tight and we loose points. I have no problem with him in any othe part of the exercise.

Looking forward to reading the replies

Wendy

[Staranais]

Assuming your dog really wants the reward you are offering?

Then my suggestion is to teach your dog that looking away from you means he has lost the chance to access the reward. i.e, during training, the minute his head turns away from you, mark that with your NRM as you immediately break off the exercise, then start again from the beginning. If he really wants what you're offering, he won't take long to work out that looking away means a delay in getting the reward.

If your dog doesn't really want the reward you're offering, then IMO you need to find a better reward.

[Ptolomy]

Make sure you are looking at the post you are going around and not the dog when you are doing the figure 8. This turns your shoulder - and generally stops the dog from lagging.

[Kavik]

My club sometimes does this variation on the figure 8 exercise - it sounds counterintuitive but actually does work!

Do fast pace going into you the left about turn (when dog is on inside near person) and then go into slow pace as you go to the right about turn (when dog is on outside). Change paces in the middle of the figure 8. This is opposite to what I have done at other clubs, but it does seem to teach the dog to push up into the right about turn and pay attention/go quicker.

[Janba]

I teach the figure 8 as a sperate excersise to heelwork. When I start teaching I reward the dog at the point where I am just past level with the posts shoulder and heading to the next regardless of where the dog is. I find what this teaches the dog is that to get a reward he has to hurry beside me when on the outside to get to that point and I find when on the inside they slow their pace to stay with me. You don't need to change pace with this method as the dog works out themself that they have to change their pace, it teaches them to think about what they are doing. I phase out the reward and then only mark really good work.

As Ptolomy said watch what your shoulders are doing. If you drop your left shoulder the dog will lag and if your bring it forward the dog will come forward

[dogdude]

I have always taught it the opposite of what kavik does. (Bauman method).

Focus is a sepperate issue and should be delt with as such.

I get the dog moving at fast pace while he is doing the right hand turn (on the outside of you) and extra slow doing the left about. This teaches the cues for the dog to move around you faster on the right turn (which is what is required to stay in correct position) and slower for the left turn.

After a number of weeks using the exaggerated paces, drop back to normal and you will find your dog will stay in correct position.

[Gamby]

Thanks for the replies

Janba do you use any words or do you just reward the dog when it is in the correct position as you reach the pivital point at the post?

I'm not sure about when you said you reward the dog irrespective of where the dog is. Can you explain please

Ptolomy - The shoulder position is something I had completely forgotten about. When first training for the F8 we were told to become earoplanes and buzz arund the imaginary F8 set up.

Amhailte - what does NRM stand for (I should know it, maybe I'm having a senior moment

Kavik - I'm a bit worreid about using the longer steps and smaller steps when doing the F8 as I feel that a Judge could take my actions as training in the ring. What are your thoughts on that?

Wendy

[Kavik]

Gamby

The change of pace is only used at training, obviously you have to keep a consistent pace in the ring.

dogdude

That is the way I have always done it at other clubs too, and I admit I was skeptical the first time the instructor suggested it at my current club as it seemed to be the opposite of what you want. But strangely it does seem to pep them up for doing that right about turn, even when you go back into normal pace for the whole figure 8.

[dogdude]

Hi Kavik

Not disagreeing with you, I just do it a different way.

I do find this method interesting though, maybe i'll try it out some day.

Gamby: There is not much you can do to fix this while in the ring. Proof it in training and reteach it properly if necessary. It won't take you long.

You could also work on luring for the right about turn (on its own), and just work on that one exercise when you train. Always plan your training and just pick one or two exercises to focus on, and break them down.

ETA: There will sure to be some good heeling pointers during the Gina O'Keefe workshop. Are you going? (I see you are from Geelong)

Edited September 26, 2007 by dogdude

[Gamby]

Dogdude, Yes I'll be there at Gina O'Keefe's workshop.

Gambit is one of the dogs who will be used for the Obedience session.

I'm really looking forward to it.

Many years ago I did a workshop with Gina at the melb Show Grounds. It was very informative and I'm sure this one will be just as good or even better.

All us Dole members \should wear our dole name tags so we can put the faces to the names.

You won't have any trouble noticing me with Gambit as I feel his is a one in a million georgous dog.

[leopuppy04]

Gamby - are you taking Gambit? Must come and say hi - i'll be there too!!!

AS for fig 8 training - pretty much everything has been said already - use your shoulders and initially reward the dog in position. Then I found to get them to 'drive' around (esp on the outside) throwing a bit of food as you are coming out of the 8 helps also.

I go to the park sometimes and practice around a footy post to get my movements right.

You might also like to practice some inside/ outside heeling... this is where rather than doing block heeling, you heel in a circle so there are no turns etc. With the dog on the inside, it teaches the dog to 'collect' themselves to keep position with you (useful for fig 8) and the outside circle helps teach the dog to 'drive' to keep position with you.

[Gamby]

Thank you everyone for the ideas on training for the Figure 8.

I really appreciate the time you have taken to write down your ideas.

Wendy

[Staranais]

Amhailte - what does NRM stand for (I should know it, maybe I'm having a senior moment

Oh sorry, I shouldn't have abbreiviated. NRM is a no reward marker. You have a bridge or clicker as a postive reward marker, indicating that the dog has just earned a reward. A no reward marker is exactly the opposite, tells the dog that he has just lost the chance to earn a reward.

[Gamby]

Amhailte - what does NRM stand for (I should know it, maybe I'm having a senior moment

A no reward marker is exactly the opposite, tells the dog that he has just lost the chance to earn a reward.

Do you use a word or do you just ignore the dog at that time and break away from the training?

Some people say "Too bad' "Wrong" etc.

[Staranais]

Do you use a word or do you just ignore the dog at that time and break away from the training?

Some people say "Too bad' "Wrong" etc.

I have a word for it, I use "uh" (said in a neutral tone as it's not meant to be aversive, it's just informing the dog that he's lost the chance to earn the toy). The word is more useful than just stopping training when the dog does something wrong, IMO, since you can say it at the exact moment the dog does what you don't want. Like a clicker, this lets you mark the behaviour, i.e it makes it clear to the dog exactly what he did wrong.

I've found this works well if you have a dog that really wants the reward, since the dog learns to avoid repeating behaviours that delay the reward. Probably wouldn't work so well if the dog wasn't so keen to get the reward.