Arya Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 I have a question I am hoping some of you Sch. enthusiasts might be able to help me with. I am just curious. My girl is a show line shepherd BUT, she is not really a 'show' looking girl. She is very light build, extremely fast, atheletic. She has GREAT prey drive. I mean great. I have her heeling like the Sch. 3 dogs on OB I've seen working here. She is very full on. She will switch into prey drive anywhere, any time if you show her her hose. She will also run like hell to take a bite roll and seems to have good grip to my inexperienced eye. BUT, that is only ME playing with her LOL. I use it to build drive in the recall for ANKC obedience. The thing is, she appears to have a nervous crack in her temperament that can make her freeze over and not work in the ANKC trial ring. It is related in part to being around other dogs. I'm confused. Somebody at a Sch club told me she was too soft. Someone else told me if she has great prey drive she could do all aspects of Sch safely, without risk to her. Now I know that this question is really academic because to truly know I'd have to take her and get her tested and really, I do suspect she'd fail. But one day in the future I'd like to at least get her BH and maybe do the OB and tracking side of Sch. Is this possible and welcomed at clubs? Just wondering what DOLers opinions are. Once K9 said on a thread that her temperament can't be THAT soft if she can switch into prey drive anywhere. He said the dog can't be in prey drive if it is afraid. What are other's thoughts? All interesting to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffnCel Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Hi Ayra I'm fairly new to the sport, we've been going to an IPO club in Brizzy for just over a month now. I am about to join the club, and they have two types of membership, one that includes protection, tracking and obedience, and the other is just obedience and tracking. We're going to try to do all, don't know how Buffy's going to go, but really if you never try you'll never know. If anything out of this club I have met so many lovely people full of wisdom who have made me understand the sport so much better. It's never too late to join, I don't know how old your girl is, but I'd say just have go, I think it's an awesome sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 I also think her temp has to be OK for her to go into prey anywhere - they have to feel fairly comfortable to go into prey. K9 Force says you can use prey drive to help overcome some problems if the dog has enough prey drive and stable enough temp. I've taken Diesel to a Sch club, for fun, to practice his obedience somewhere different and see what it was like. They were a really nice bunch of people, impressed with his heeling and said you can do the obedience and tracking without doing the character part of Sch. Diesel is fairly lazy without heaps of prey and can be difficult to motivate, so we won't be doing it, but it was fun to go and see. I think you should at least go and see what they say if you are interested With trialling, are you sure it is the dog and not you giving off signals? Some dogs (including mine!) react differently if you are stressed or if you act differently than you do in training. Do you go to a training club? If so, how is she there? If she is different at trials than at training, it could be a few things, including different atmosphere, more excitement/stress as different dogs or it could be that you are acting differently (or a combination). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 (edited) moved to training question Edited September 20, 2007 by lilli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Arya how old is the dog? I wouldnt be worried about whether shes from working lines or not if she has the right temperament go for it. It is hard to make a judgement on the dog without seeing her but the temperament and characteristics you have described do sound promising for her to train and trial for her BH. Once K9 said on a thread that her temperament can't be THAT soft if she can switch into prey drive anywhere. He said the dog can't be in prey drive if it is afraid. What are other's thoughts? That is correct. Slightly Off topic. Where did you get the idea to use abit of hose as a prey reward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Hi everyone, thanks so much for the replies, this is so heartening! This is something I noticed when giong to watch Sch Trials - everyone is so friendly there!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like big family Jeff, the hose idea came from a friend who trains in ANKC obedience, Andrew Macdonald. He swears by them and uses them to build prey drive. Previously I used balls. I have swapped and find the difference amazing. Forty centimetre piece of hose, first tucked along my forearm in sight of the dog, then moved inside my sleeve. Now as we've progressed, in my back pocket. I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I flick the hose around and activate her drive, stick it in my back pocket, heel off and if I want to increase the prey drive, I make a movement with my arm like I'm reaching behind me to get it. I can turn the drive up and down in this way. Here eyes nearly pop out of her head LOL. Then throw short distance like the dummy I've seen they use with customs dogs in mail room, then she brings it back and we have quick tug. Then off go again GREAT STUFF!!! I have seen something similar on Leerburg Bernhard Flinks DVD but with ball on string? Kavik, Jeffncel, I will definitely give it a try! I know of three Sch clubs not that far away from me I can check out. My girl is three years old. Just settling down nicely and maturing now (late bloomer LOL)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Arya, The hose idea is great. It interested me as it is used by many handlers in Corrective Services and the NSW Police Dog Squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 There is a book Schutzhund obedince training in drive by (of course I forgot the author) I think Sheila Booth and it sugests hoses as the prey item. ayra where are you located? From what I know you can do the ob and the tracking parts in the clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibba Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 There is a book Schutzhund obedince training in drive by (of course I forgot the author) I think Sheila Booth and it sugests hoses as the prey item.ayra where are you located? From what I know you can do the ob and the tracking parts in the clubs. Ayra there is a schutzhund club in cranbourne, i would be careful of going there, i have been there and the trainer ruined my dog, be careful of the bite work if your dog is slightly unstable with this trainer. Only saying this as if you know Andrew Mcdonald you must be down that way, Andrew is an ex MP that is probably where he got the rubber hose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Arya, The hose idea is great. It interested me as it is used by many handlers in Corrective Services and the NSW Police Dog Squad. Aha! I have heard it mentioned by Bernhard Flinks as I said Boy, it is good! Don't know why more people don't use. only thing is, have to hunt around to find strong enough hose. Washing machine hose seems to be the go in our house LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 There is a book Schutzhund obedince training in drive by (of course I forgot the author) I think Sheila Booth and it sugests hoses as the prey item.ayra where are you located? From what I know you can do the ob and the tracking parts in the clubs. I am south east of Melbourne and yep, there are three in my vague area, all about just over hour's drive I shall look for this book on Amazon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 There is a book Schutzhund obedince training in drive by (of course I forgot the author) I think Sheila Booth and it sugests hoses as the prey item.ayra where are you located? From what I know you can do the ob and the tracking parts in the clubs. Ayra there is a schutzhund club in cranbourne, i would be careful of going there, i have been there and the trainer ruined my dog, be careful of the bite work if your dog is slightly unstable with this trainer. Only saying this as if you know Andrew Mcdonald you must be down that way, Andrew is an ex MP that is probably where he got the rubber hose from. Nytewynd, I am pretty sure I know where you mean!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't worry, nobody touches my dog unless I have complete confidence in them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yep Andrew ex MP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 You can contact Bernadette from Bisart kennels (dobes in Melbourne - just google the website) I think she used to go to the sch club at some stage and done the BH with her bitch (half sister to my Rex ) she will be able to recomend a club for you. the trainer ruined my dog what happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibba Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 You can contact Bernadette from Bisart kennels (dobes in Melbourne - just google the website) I think she used to go to the sch club at some stage and done the BH with her bitch (half sister to my Rex ) she will be able to recomend a club for you.the trainer ruined my dog what happened? I had a 6 mth old male g shep pup out of an IPO 3 Sch # imp dog who shep people wouldnt use as his pups where too hard, and i took him to this trainer and he trained him too hard, we had private lessons he was using the whip on this six month old puppy, and bragging about how he once took the tips of the ears of a dog, and my poor pup was working still with all th epressure that was put on him, they even tested him with driving against him and he still held his grip. When they had a trial, another club came over to watch and this trainer told them to have a look at my pup, which they did and liked him, we went over to there club and they tested him fo rus, as i wanted to know if he was going to be anygood, and our boys bite was gone, he was moving in his grip and he was unstable, if a person walke dnear him he may bite them,he never used to be like this, it was all caused by putting too much pressure on a puppy. This trainer at the tiem was training a rotti that they had pushed too far also and he had gone to pure aggression too, and they where retraining him back so he was controllable, so seems to be a common problem there, if you have a good dog, they push too hard. People in the know know this trainer and what he is like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 I had a 6 mth old male g shep pup out of an IPO 3 Sch # imp dog who shep people wouldnt use as his pups where too hard, Who was the Sire? Xamm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibba Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 I had a 6 mth old male g shep pup out of an IPO 3 Sch # imp dog who shep people wouldnt use as his pups where too hard, Who was the Sire? Xamm? His sire was Luck von Batu IPO 3 Sch 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Posted September 22, 2007 Author Share Posted September 22, 2007 Wow that is a bad story Nytewynd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why push a dog and ruin him in the process??? And at six months old!!!!!How awful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! From what you mention, I know who you are referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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