Mouthing

[MissMaddy]

I'm just wondering at what age does mouthing usually stop?

Zali is nearly 9 months old (german shepherd), and she still mouths occasionally. It's never hard, and it's usually not me who she does it to. She does it to my mum (who she doesn't respect, but she won't listen to me as to how to discipline her, as she's pretty sensitive, and only responds to particular tones of voice, etc), and will often do it to people that come up and pat her in the middle of going crazy over these people.

I don't remember what my last 2 shepherds were like at this age, so I'm not sure how normal this is? When she does it, I usually just tell her "no" sharply, and she will usually stop, otherwise I will stop her physically just by her collar (this is when she does it to strangers), and allow her to get attention from the person again when she stops trying to mouth (although they usually just walk away, so I guess this is also teaching her that mouthing means the person she wants to talk to leaves her). If she does it to me, I'll also tell her no, and if she doesn't stop, squeeze her bottom jaw (not hard enough to hurt), and she's almost stopped doing it to me.

I'm just wondering if she will stop this, or if I need to become a bit stronger in disciplining her when she does it to others? Or if there are other better methods to stop her more effectively that I can try and get my mum and other people to use?

[Rhi*Jak*Ed]

I wouldn't mind knowing either.... Mine is 7 months and still mouths. She mainly does it when we're playing though and with strangers when she gets a bit excited. She also loves the vet's hands! Hmm. She doesn't do it to hurt me, but it's annoying just the same.

I've just started putting her in to time-out for it. Nothing else seems to have worked so far and she's picked up other things so quickly. When I let her back in the room I have a toy ready and waiting - if she goes for my hands again it's another session in time-out.

Not sure if this is the right way to go about it or not? It gives my hands some relief anyway :-)

Rhi & Jak

[sas]

It's not a case of growing out of it at this age, it's a case of teaching them it's not acceptable behaviour, there are a number of different ways of doing this.

If she does it to me, I'll also tell her no, and if she doesn't stop, squeeze her bottom jaw (not hard enough to hurt)

If it's not unpleasant there's no reason for the dog to cease what it's doing. You can give time outs a try, they don't work for all dogs but if you haven't tried it yet give it a go, otherwise you'll probably have to show the dog a reason for not biting.

Edited September 19, 2007 by sas

[MissMaddy]

It's not a case of growing out of it at this age, it's a case of teaching them it's not acceptable behaviour, there are a number of different ways of doing this.

If she does it to me, I'll also tell her no, and if she doesn't stop, squeeze her bottom jaw (not hard enough to hurt)

If it's not unpleasant there's no reason for the dog to cease what it's doing. You can give time outs a try, they don't work for all dogs but if you haven't tried it yet give it a go, otherwise you'll probably have to show the dog a reason for not biting.

Sorry, I didn't explain that well. I meant as in I don't do it so hard that she's yelping in pain, but it's definitely hard enough to get the message across. She has almost completely stopped it with me unless we're playing, it's just that she does it to other people only when she's excited. That's where it's hard to stop her, as she's already going silly over them and is moving so fast, and there's usually no where to even try time out as we're not home. It's also really hard to try and tell people that I don't really know to try and tell her off, even though I know that it works much better if the person she is mouthing tells her off properly.

[Doghouse]

I dont know what age they are supposed to stop doing it to each other but to the human members of this pack it was sporadically by 4 months and that was it.. never again.. ever..

The still do it to each other in play fight, but not the us, not the family. Not acceptable..

[dee lee]

Me too, me too!!

my 9monthold staffy x pup has upped the mouthing and jumping up lately, and saying NO no longer does the trick. She has started playing VERY roughly at the dog park lately so im eager to hear what other people do to stop this kind of thing. Im imagining its a slippery slide from here so i want to nip it(so to speak) in the bud.

Any more tips to add to the arsenal??

[Poodle wrangler]

It's a training, not an age issue at the age of these dogs. I was taught to say and no and press the dog's lips onto their teeth- not too hard, just to send the message, but that was years ago and there are probably better ways.

Desexing can help reduce tensions/ hormonal problems if they're not already.

[Rhi*Jak*Ed]

Actually, Jak is alot less mouthy since she was desexed...

[dee lee]

already desexed... problem getting worse.

I know its a training thing, just trying to find HOW.

Its always when my kids have gotten her overexcited by their squealing and carrying on (no chance training them . Recently I have tried to do the "NO biting" followed by a push to the ground and holding her down by her throat for a short space of time if she doesnt stop. Mostly works to calm her down. Mostly... But she just doesnt seem to be learning to stop.

As for the increasingly rough playing at the park, i'm coming to the conclusion that they must be related and i need to practice zero tolerance there too.

HELP!!!

[MissMaddy]

Mine's not desexed, and at this stage won't be unless her hips or elbows aren't good enough to breed from her.

I'm planning on showing her and eventually breeding, so at the moment desexing her isn't an option.

I had the same issue with Zali getting rough with the other dogs around 6-7 months where anything that was more submissive than her (usually labs), and she would jump on them roughly in play (although she usually did it on lead, like she feeling threatened being on the lead). As she was also getting a lot physically stronger, I started using a correction collar and the minute she got too rough she was told no, too rough (more for my sake than hers) and taken away from the other dog, especially with other puppies. She could only go back on my terms, if she wasn't too rough. It worked in a very short space of time, as she was obviously just pushing the boundaries. Now, if she's off lead and gets too rough, all I have to do is tell her no, too rough, and she settles down a bit. But the best thing for her has been other dogs telling her off (as long as they back off once she stops), it's really helped her to know that there are boundaries, and she will only get told off by them if she goes too far.

With the mouthing, I guess I know the answers, as squeezing her bottom jaw so her lips press against her teeth works well, it's just training the other family members and people who come up and pat her!! Luckily she is pretty sensitive so will usually stop when told, so I guess it's just persistance and it will eventually stop once she gets the message it's not ok.

[sas]

Dante was an absolute shocker with the biting and he's a big puppy.

Some puppies can take repremands really well and learn from more softer approach, some dogs need a much more firmer approach, each dog is an individual.

If your dog is doing it in excitment you need to be able to catch the start of he behaviour before the dog gets excited because the dog will find learning very difficult when it has an excited frame of mind.

Here's a range of different tecniques people use for mouthing, typically you would start at the more soft techniques and work your way up to the firmer ones, some people won't like all the methods but I'm simply putting out there methods I've heard of:

1) Firm verbal repremand with a growly voice - Ladies have to watch their high pitched voices / walk away (end the game) from the dog if it's not likely to chase you and bite you

2) Tap on the nose

3) Rolling the flews of the dogs mouth around the teeth of the dog so the dog is effectively biting itself.

4) Pushing you hand further back in the dogs mouth toward its' throat whilst pushing down on the tounge at the same time.

5) Squirting the dog with a water pistol

6) Ear, Nose or Lip squeeze until the dog yelps

7) Biting the dog back

8) Scruffing the dog

9) Submitting the dog - putting it on its side and not letting it up for 10-20 seconds (not for adult dogs)

10) Smack on the rump with a hand

11) And for the really bad biters who think its' a game and none of the above methods work, a smack to the rump with a lead (not beating the dog obviously)

12) 2 Minute Time outs away from the pack.

When it comes to repremands they have to be of a certain level of being uncomfortable to give the dog a reason not to repeat them. Some dogs also have high pain thresholds.

The typical method for biting puppies is when they are very young is to scruff them until they yelp, then give them a pat to let them know its' ok and there are no hard feelings. Some people feel this is cruel, yet if you saw the dogs mother do it you wouldn't think it were cruel an the dogs mother would put the dog in its' place similar to this.

Edited September 20, 2007 by sas

[sheree_e4]

SAS,GOOD POST

I really find that people are too soft on their dogs,They need to remember that if these dogs were in the wild and doing it to another "pack" member who was higher than themselves they would be harshly repremanded.

Remember dogs are dogs and it does not matter if you treat them like a human they will always treat you as another dog!!

[schnauzer_luv]

My pup was getting worse and worse with mouthing when he got excited so we had a crack down last week. Every time he wraps his mouth around our hands we wrap our hand over the top of his snout (without blocking his nose)look him straight in the eye and say BA...it has virtually completely stopped in the space of a week, he will sometimes still have a go at bare feet but even that is slowing down. It didn't take that long really, I was impressed. We are still continuing firmly with it though.

[Lil Miss LeiLani]

What do you do with a dog when you hold his snout or his mouth, and he gets more excited & cheeky and still tries to bite??

We bite him on the ear when he bites us - but he still bites us ! Always the hands.

I'm going to try pushing in the sides on his teeth and see if that works.

Nothing seems to phase him though as nothing has yet worked.

[Cosmolo]

If you correct the dog and they 'mouth back' you have to follow through with the correction, work through the tantrum and release them only when they are quiet. Usually if i have corrected by collar or scruff, i will hold the dog in a sit between my knees with hand on collar directly behind their head until they settle. Be prepared for the fireworks though and if you can't follow through don't engage in the battle- you must be consistent

[Lil Miss LeiLani]

Thanks Cosmolo - will perservere & follow thru & see what happens.

[alananddora]

Our 12 week old GSD had been biting and mouthing alot. I can honestly say that now that the above techniques have also worked for me. Everytime she mouths (or playful bites) I hold her muzzle look her in the eye and a firm NO. This has virtually eliminated this behaviour with me - of course she's still only 12 weeks and it will be ongoing process.... but in the morning or when I return home when she is most excited she now licks rather than mouths.

My OH, however does not follow this process (consistently) and still receives the nip and mouthing of feet, trouser and hands.

[Poodle wrangler]

If nothing seems to be working, join your local obedience club and have someone show you a technique to use. Always easier to explain that way.

Then, use it every single time the dog mouths you. Zero tolerance.

If you don't like a behaviour- make it unrewarding for the dog.

If it's not working, the dog is still getting a reward of some kind, even if it's just your negative attention.

[MissMaddy]

Thanks everyone for your replies, some very useful suggestions there!

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to stop her getting excited, but while still ensuring she stays as friendly and social as she already is?

She goes absolutely silly when people come to say hello to her, especially if she knows them. I remember my last girl being very similar in this way (but don't remember any mouthing), but she just took time to settle as she matured (about 18 mths- 2years old). She is improving a lot, she's almost finished her 1st season and seems a lot more settled since, so her excitement dies down a lot quicker than it would have in the past.

Oh, and I've never been accused of being too soft on my dogs! I keep having to remind myself that she's not my well behave 11 year old that was put down last year, and she is still young and very immature.

I have also noticed that if I'm too tough on her, she doesn't really respond, and just being direct, not emotional, and expecting her to do what I ask has worked really well, allowing me to be able to get her to do most things with very little effort on my part.

ETA: we've been doing obedience since she was 10 weeks old (and she's doing extremely well at it, it took her just 1 month out of puppy class to go up to the next class), but she hasn't been for a few weeks due to being in season, and I didn't really notice or think about the mouthing until recently.

Edited September 21, 2007 by MissMaddy

[sas]

Some puppies are really excitable and you wonder when they'll just settle down LOL

Perhaps pop puppy on a lead when you need to control the excitment and have some treats and get puppy to sit & watch when you need to control her or walk/lure her away from what she is being over-excited about.