Unintentional Conditioning

[Lablover]

So many words we use in every day life, sound similar to vocal cues, we have conditioned to our dogs.

I try to keep to one word cues,.........that being said, double vowel vocal cues/words are considered worthwhile, from various canine scientific studies.

Dogs learn our body language so well, (after all dogs have their own language) which aids in generalised and location training.

I like the side head cockers - who show confusion.

In retriever training in Australia, we do not require honors- one dog sitting next to another "working" dog. The working dog is released to retrieve by its name. If the honouring dog moves, they are disqualified. Their names are used in every day life.

Good subject.

[NaturallyWild]

I absolutely think dogs will/can create their own associations for words even though we may not be deliberately training it in. We humans are creatures of habit and probably do a heck of a lot of stuff that we don't realise - dogs are also rediculously keen observers and can make learned associations in only a single event - why wouldn't this happen.

Pax - yes i've done the "release" without any body cues and he will break - if he wants to - it depends on if there is reinforcement coming and from where. Just because a dog hasn't moved from that position when released doesn't mean that they don't understand it - it may be that they are waiting for a reward or think it is better to stay in that position because that is where they are likely to get a reward. Next thing for you to test is lying down or facing away or hidden and giving the release cue.

I've also recently thought about the use of release cue only vs using stay and release cues. I can now actually see a potential benefit to using the stay and release cue. For someone who is not persistent enough with providing the release cue everytime after asking for sit/down/stand/etc the dog can begin to break position before being released because the owner forgets about it. If they were to have the specific stay cue they are more likely to be persistent with the release cue because they are more concious of what they have asked and becomes more solid because it doesn't loose value when not used/wasted in other situations. Does this make sense to anyone . Saying all this though I prefer the sit means sit rule until asked to do something else or released because i know i am reliable, but my GF doesn't follow this so much and forgets a lot of the time - when i came back from 3months overseas our dog was horrible with sit means sit.

[Sarah L]

I am not sure if this is on topic or off topic but here goes.

Does anyone train their dog first with body language then put the word it to suit the behaviour. A trainer taught me this a long time ago and I find it works a treat. What they told me was that there was no point putting the word in until the dog had learned the behaviour first. For the 5 basic words of command, heel,come,sit,stay,down then it was better to teach this with body language once the dog was responding to this then you put a word assosiation in. They told me it stops all confusion in the dog and also helps with bad timeing. Just interested if anyone else has tried this way of training.

Edited September 21, 2007 by pinnacle dts

[NaturallyWild]

I am not sure if this is on topic or off topic but here goes.

Does anyone train their dog first with body language then put the word it to suit the behaviour. A trainer taught me this a long time ago and I find it works a treat. What they told me was that there was no point putting the word in until the dog had learned the behaviour first. For the 5 basic words of command, heel,come,sit,stay,down then it was better to teach this with body language once the dog was responding to this then you put a word assosiation in. They told me it stops all confusion in the dog and also helps with bad timeing. Just interested if anyone else has tried this way of training.

I absolutely do - i want to see a consitent pattern of behaviour (the way i want it) happening that i can almost 100% predict before i add the cue. This process isn't going to stop the comfusion though if you need to then make changes/corrections to the behaviour after (ie crooked sits that then need to be straightened).

[Sarah L]

I am not sure if this is on topic or off topic but here goes.

Does anyone train their dog first with body language then put the word it to suit the behaviour. A trainer taught me this a long time ago and I find it works a treat. What they told me was that there was no point putting the word in until the dog had learned the behaviour first. For the 5 basic words of command, heel,come,sit,stay,down then it was better to teach this with body language once the dog was responding to this then you put a word assosiation in. They told me it stops all confusion in the dog and also helps with bad timeing. Just interested if anyone else has tried this way of training.

I absolutely do - i want to see a consitent pattern of behaviour (the way i want it) happening that i can almost 100% predict before i add the cue. This process isn't going to stop the comfusion though if you need to then make changes/corrections to the behaviour after (ie crooked sits that then need to be straightened).

NaturallyWild, I am not sure how you train in the first place but I am guessing you may use lure reward amongst other things. When I was taught lure reward I was taught to use only the dogs quantity of food for that day, not liver treats and schmakos on top of a full diet, and that when using body language first to show the dog the desired behaviour then if for example the dog sat crooked on the first instance you did not reward it but ignored it and try again. On the second attempt the dog sat straight and you then reward. This was all done with no voice contact to the dog. I have seen this method used where by no matter what position the dog sat in the first time it was rewarded. When done this way it does not make the dog think but can make it offer certain behaviours just because it is confused about what exactly it is supposed to do. What I was taught was that by showing the dog the exact position then negated any need for changes/corrections later. I would like to hear more of your views on this type of training and how you go about using it. I feel that a lot of the time this method is used wrongly and people become hooked up on its only because of the food that the dog is doing it.

Ok so now I am off topic so me thinks a new thread is about to start.