Rear Leg Problem - Cavalier **update**

[gilbertgrape]

**update** Just a quick upate to tell those who are interested that I took him to the vet yesterday. She took some x-rays of his hips and knees. No luxating patella, but bad hip dysplasia, especially in the right hip. Bad in the way that there's no real ball and socket joint formation happening in that hip! the left leg is only a little better. The hip dysplasia is causing the leg to be sitting outwards. He has signs of arthritis in both joints. She's given me some Osteosupport tablets, plus an injection of Cartophen (need 3 of them). Is there anyone here who has had a dog with hip dysplasia? And what kind of treatment did you use for your dog that worked well? What is the prognosis on this type of thing?? He's only 4 years old and I feel bad for him. The breeder hip scores her dogs, and mine ended up with this, would she want to know? Do good breeders want to know these types of things?? I don't want to say anything if its going to be a tense discussion because I couldn't be bothered with someone getting cranky. I'd rather just leave it. ****

Original message: I have a 4 year old Cavalier and his hind legs are not quite right. It's like the top of the leg has been turned out, away from the the hip. It gives a look like a cowboy, or bow-leggedness. It's not precisely bow-leggedness because his actual legs are straight, the problem is that they are not aligned properly with the hip. It's not glaringly obvious, but it is noticeable if you're looking for it. He has had it for about 3 years and it doesn't seem to have got any worse. The right leg appears to be more out of alignment than the left. A vet noticed it and superficially checked him out and commented that it didn't seem to be causing him any pain. She did suggest, however, that I might like to investigate it further to see what we are dealing with for the future. It's something I've always had in the back of my mind, but because it wasn't causing him any trouble I let it go for a while.

I think it may be affecting him now, and has manifested as a limp in his right leg after he runs. For the past few weeks it has been happening to him everytime I play ball with him in the backyard. Afterwards (throughout the evening) the leg looks very stiff - I guess similiar to the symptoms of luxating patella. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the positioning of his legs is causing his patella to luxate. I am going to take him to the vet next week, however, in the meantime is there anyone on this forum who has encountered a similar problem? I've done some research on the internet and it doesn't seem to be a common problem with the rear legs, more a front leg problem.

I just hope he's not in any pain from it all

Edited September 19, 2007 by gilbertgrape

[Sivvy]

Firstly welcome gilbertgrape, did you get your name from the movie. Love that movie.

If the leg pops in and out, then it could be patellas. But it also sounds like the problems may be coming from the hip. If they are aligned wrong hips and the patellas could both be giving way.

Sorry I cant be of much help to you, I just hope their is something you could do for your dog.

[gilbertgrape]

Hi Sivaro, Thanks for the welcome and thanks for responding. My name is from the movie - it was an excellent movie!

It does seem like it's not a common problem - so I guess I'll wait and see what the vet says. I hope its not something that's going to require a bunch of surgery.

[Sivvy]

Best of luck gg.

[Poodle wrangler]

My standard poodle recently had luxating patellas diagnosed at the vet. I noticed a limp that happened for only < 5minutes, then seemed fine again shortly afterwards. It's much more common in smaller breeds.

The 'bowlegged' look you describe can make a luxating patella more likely- a curved thigh bone puts the ligament out of alignment.

My dog would suddenly hold up one of the back legs off the ground (usually after running off leash), no squeal of pain, then he'd seem to test it briefly, then looked 100% OK with it. Some dogs will yelp when the 'knee' pops out.

My vet did XRays, though some say that's not really necessary. If it's severe they often just go ahead with the op without XRay. The vet will be able to pop out the knee easily in the clinic. If there's some question about what else is going on, they might XRay under sedation or a general anaesthetic.

I was told if you leave it and it's frequent the dog will develop arthritis prematurely in the knee.

Best wishes .

[gilbertgrape]

Best of luck gg.

Thanks Sivaro. I've been going through the site looking at old threads and just spent 4 hours reading about Leo - crying every 20 minutes or so! What a story, and what a dog!!

Was there any media interest in the story in the end?

[gilbertgrape]

Thanks for info poodle wrangler! One of our other Cavaliers had a luxating Patella and he had an operation and all is fine now (he had it at 3 years and he's 10 now). I made sure that when I bought my little Cav that his parents had been hip and knee scored, heart clear etc but this thing with the hips seems to be something that the breeder wouldn't have been able to check for or know about because it seemed to develop after I had him for a little while.

The thighbone isn't bowed actually... I had a look at it earlier today and when he stands he's like a dancer/ballerina. His feet aren't forward facing and he stands with his back legs quite a long way apart... much further apart than his front legs.

I'm sure the whole hip and leg misalignment is pulling on his patella and making it pop out. He doesn't yelp, but he limps for a while afterwards and is always right by the next morning. I think he'll definitely need x-rays because of the extra stuff that is happening in the hip region. It's definitely best I get onto it sooner rather than later, to avoid arthritis (like you said).

[Jed]

Welcome to the forum, gilbert grape. See the vet, but it might also be a good idea to see a good dog chiropractor, or a vet who does chiropractic work. Sometimes it is simply that something is out of alignment - rough play, fell off the bed, jumped and landed awkwardly - I know a cav which was sometimes lame - and a few people suggested lp - in fact, he had a partially dislocated hip. Obviously, this was a case for the vet.

Another which was very low behind and not walking properly had put his back out. A couple of visits to the chiro, and he is now cutting a very wide swathe through the show ring.

Good luck with the diagnosis, and let us know how you go.

[gilbertgrape]

Thanks Jed.... I'll start with the usual vet and then consider all of those options during the consultation. It does look like a structural deformity though which seems to be causing the limping

[gilbertgrape]

update

[Poodle wrangler]

Good breeders would want to know this. She may have kept a sibling to breed with, though they should also have been hip scored before breeding.

Bad hips can come from health tested dogs with good hip scores, though it's much more rare. Sounds like you've been very unlucky. There was a thread about a young labrador with HD and excellent hip scores from both parents. Your chances of getting it are greatly reduced by health testing, but not eliminated .

Also, what were the sire and dam's hip scores? There was another thread about someone who'd done the right thing and bought from health tested parents only to find the hip scores were poor, but breeder bred them anyway .

I guess it depends on how you approach the breeder? I'd send an email saying you wanted to inform her that this problem has been diagnosed. Mention the name of the vet etc., so they know you're genuine rather than out to blame her.

Far as I'm aware, it's a matter of treating the symptoms- cortisone injections, maybe antiinflammatory medication for pain. There are supplements e.g. fish oil and glucosamine and chondritin which may also help a little. Surgery is extremely expensive and I'm not sure of the rate of success or it I'd be up for it, but there are some here who have. Talk it over more with your vet- a lot of information + shock to deal with.

[gilbertgrape]

Hi poodlewrangler,

Thanks so much for your reply. I'll send the breeder an email. I'm definitely not blaming the breeder because I do believe she is an ethical breeder and i've just been unlucky.

Unfortunately I didn't know to look into the actual hip scores at the time, I just assumed that because a breeder had gone to the trouble of hipscoring that they wouldn't breed with a dog that had a low score. But as you said, it doesn't make a difference to some.

Re surgery, I wouldn't consider the hip replacement (too expensive) but the femoral excision surgery (I think that's what its called) sounds like its somewhat cheaper and quite successful. I guess its a wait and see. It is a bit of shock.

[Belljari]

Hi gilbertgrape.

We had a shepard many years ago that had terrible hips similar to your pups there was no socket for for the ball of the hip and she had surgery and Iam sure it was the femoral excision surgery she had done, is it when they cut some part of the muscle on the inside leg sorry it was many years ago but anyway she went on to live many years of no limping or pain until she she was approx 12years old. She loved her walks and swimming it was never really a problem again.

Good luck ;)

[Jed]

Certainly tell the breeder. I like to know everything that happens, good or bad, because it helps with the breeding program. I would also like to see x-rays (for my own information, a breeder can never know enough).

Sounds as if you are just unlucky, if the breeder hip scores. Just s##t happens, I guess.

Have you discussed with your vet the option of building up his muscles to support the hips? It may not work, it may be too bad, or he may be too old.

A vet I knew had a lot of success with HD with controlled exercise over a period of time - swimming, exercise, and the muscles in the affected dogs did build up enough to support the hips, so no medication was necessary. This vet is in Q, and although this treatment is not universally practised, it is not uncommon, so someone (or your own vet) may know about it. Of course, your vet may know, but may have decided it would not help him. May be worth asking though.

Good luck with him, it's a nasty thing to happen.

[~Archie~]

I wrote in another post....

Mum's Labrador has Hip & elbow dysplasia, we have tried everything, Rimadyl, Cartrophen injections, Joint Guard, joint foods etc

He has thrived on Joint Guard, he didnt need any rimadyl over the winter months, which is a massive break through for him as he is quite severe! He is like a new dog!!

He has the cartrophen injections every 12 months and a top up if he needs it, and he has his Joint Guard powder every night!

[MTD]

;) gilbertgrape

My cocker has HD and was diagnosed at the age of 7 months.With controlled exercise, massage, bowen therapy, and joint guard we have been able to control this condition.

It may be different with your dog as he is older but with Maggie the specialist did say that because she is young if we do the non surgical approach she may develop a psuedo hip and by excercising, the muscles build up to support the hip. I feel this has happened as she is now nearly 2 and yes some days she has discomfort but she is not in the pain she was at 7 months .

Yes tell the breeder she needs to know.

[CavsRcute]

My Cavalier who is now 4 also has HD. She has acupuncture every month, goes to the chiro every 3 months, is on a homeopathic anti inflammatory, and a liquid glucosamine. We also do exercises every day and she is going well.

[gilbertgrape]

Certainly tell the breeder. I like to know everything that happens, good or bad, because it helps with the breeding program. I would also like to see x-rays (for my own information, a breeder can never know enough).

Sounds as if you are just unlucky, if the breeder hip scores. Just s##t happens, I guess.

Have you discussed with your vet the option of building up his muscles to support the hips? It may not work, it may be too bad, or he may be too old.

A vet I knew had a lot of success with HD with controlled exercise over a period of time - swimming, exercise, and the muscles in the affected dogs did build up enough to support the hips, so no medication was necessary. This vet is in Q, and although this treatment is not universally practised, it is not uncommon, so someone (or your own vet) may know about it. Of course, your vet may know, but may have decided it would not help him. May be worth asking though.

Good luck with him, it's a nasty thing to happen.

Hi Jed,

I emailed the breeder yesterday. So hopefully she'll be pleased that I contacted her about it.

My vet recommended that I walk him daily - she didn't mention about building up the muscles, but I suppose this is what it'd do! She said that daily exercise is much, much better than occassional exercise that may cause more harm than good. I need to go back in a week to have the next injection so I'll ask her about controlled exercise as well.

Thanks for your reply.

GG.

[gilbertgrape]

Hi gilbertgrape.

We had a shepard many years ago that had terrible hips similar to your pups there was no socket for for the ball of the hip and she had surgery and Iam sure it was the femoral excision surgery she had done, is it when they cut some part of the muscle on the inside leg sorry it was many years ago but anyway she went on to live many years of no limping or pain until she she was approx 12years old. She loved her walks and swimming it was never really a problem again.

Good luck

It sounds like the surgery my work well..... although femoral excision is when they cut the ball off the top of the femur and then scar tissue builds up or something! I read it a coupe of nights ago and I can't properly remember now!

Thanks for your well wishes

GG.

[gilbertgrape]

I wrote in another post....

Mum's Labrador has Hip & elbow dysplasia, we have tried everything, Rimadyl, Cartrophen injections, Joint Guard, joint foods etc

He has thrived on Joint Guard, he didnt need any rimadyl over the winter months, which is a massive break through for him as he is quite severe! He is like a new dog!!

He has the cartrophen injections every 12 months and a top up if he needs it, and he has his Joint Guard powder every night!

Thanks for this BostonGirl. I've written the name down and will talk to the vet about it as well. It sounds like its a good idea to stick to the cartrophen injections.