My Foster Failure Is Scared Of The Leash

[hortfurball]

I have a 17 week old little kelpie x girl (Ebony) who is my foster failure! She came from the pound at 14 weeks and no idea what her life was like prior to that.

I arranged to take her on a puppy play date last weekend (10 days after her shots), went to put the leash on her and she balked.

Her borrowed collar is a little too big so I won't just clip a leash on in case it slips over her head and haven't got around to buying her her own collar yet as I only adopted her a few days ago. In the meantime I clipped the leash onto itself to create a loop. I ended up picking her up, carrying her to the car, and carrying her at the other end.

I wondered if it didn't loosen enough for her so today I got Ella's check chain and Ebony backed off at the sight of it, wouldn't come close enough to put it on her. I tempted her with treats and put it on her. She tried to squirm away from it and when it 'followed' her, she just flopped. Told her she was a good girl, gave her treats then tried calling her from about half a metre away with liver treats in hand. Apparently they are not enticement enough to actually move so I took the chain off her after a minute or so as I didn't want to make her worse.

I can only guess she's been chained up and left for long periods

Will really appreciate advice on how I can get this girl used to a leash of any description. Any ideas?

Edited September 26, 2007 by hortfurball

[sidoney]

I'm editing the post, since I reread the post above!! Teach me to try to read at 2am!

Be prepared before you start. Buy her a collar that fits. Buy her a fabric lead if she doesn't already have one. For training, give her a short lead - cut an old fabric one or buy a cheap one that you can cut short. Long enough to drag a little but probably no more than her body length. Light to move with and not too scary. Otherwise what you have been doing sounds appropriate.

As you have said you have been doing, I'd be making a gradual approach. Teach her (off lead) to come a short distance to you for pats and/or treats. While patting her, clip on the short length of lead that she can drag around with you supervising. Keep patting.

You can put a little bit of pressure on it while calling her to you. Release pressure and reward if she steps forward. Teach her this way to give to the pressure on the collar. If she's worried about it, start with you kneeling or sitting. Only stand up gradually, as she can handle it.

Let her drag the lead around a bit. If she doesn't move straight away, let her think about it for a bit. You can also try a higher value item than dried liver treats. (If she doesn't move, and you then take it off, she may learn that the way to get it off is to remain lying down and not moving.) As she learns to move with it, she can get used to the weight of it and the pressure of standing on it. Do nice things with her while it's on, like patting, treating and so on.

Make sure that you don't accidentally reward behaviour you don't want, such as lying down without moving with it on, by patting her and going "good dog, don't worry". You may feel like you are reassuring her but it will have the effect of rewarding the "timid" behaviour. I don't know if you do that, but it's worth mentioning.

When she's confident with giving to lead pressure, and having the lead on, you can try a normal length of lead (I would avoid putting a chain on her at this stage - I don't use chain at all) and encourage her to come with you, let her feel a bit of pressure and release the pressure and reward her whenever she gives to the pressure. Change direction, let her give to the pressure with you in different locations relative to her. Reward her well.

You may find it all goes along quickly and well. She may simply not have been on a lead before. I had a timid foster that I used the above steps with and it took her not long at all before she was confidently walking on lead, going to flyball training, etc.

Edited September 8, 2007 by sidoney

[hortfurball]

Thanks Sidoney.

By fabric lead, do you mean the woven ones? That's the sort I have. Will buy her a collar on Monday.

I definitely want to take it slow. Until she's happy dragging the leash around home I wasn't planning on taking her out or anything (Wasn't even going to put any pressure on until she'll drag it on her own). At this stage I just want her to get to the stage where she sees a leash as a perfectly harmless non scary item.

She already comes when she's called when loose, so we're past that step, but if she sees the leash in my hand, she comes running then skids to a halt just out of reach, eyeballing the leash! Her tail instantly goes down and she gets a worried look on her face. Definitely a bad memory there of some description.

I was kneeling BTW! Crouching down with the treat only about 20cm from her nose. Didn't stand up until after I took the leash off. For her, there is no higher value treat than dried liver treats! I went straight to the top!! (She spits Schmackos out, weird pup!)

She's very smart, took her three x 3 minute sessions with treats to learn 'drop' and she now drops with no treat in my hand. I don't think this is just a case of not having been on a leash before.

One question, if you don't use a check chain, aren't you worried about collars slipping over heads if the dog gets a bit headstrong. I've always found a check chain to be reassuring (to me) because I know my dogs will never slip their collars. Obviously I'll avoid a chain for the next few weeks/months/however long it takes for her.

Just did a quick (2 or 3 minutes) session with the looped on itself leash. Still nervous but a lot better than with the chain. Actually had her moving for a reward, but she dropped as soon as she had her treat! Sometimes she just belly crawled to me! One week of two short sessions a day should see a vast improvement if she goes forward as fast with this as she has with her other training.

Thanks for your advice , good to know I was somewhat on the right track.

[Tonymc]

I have to agree with Sidoney here as it seems very much a case of a Dog not having spent much time on a Lead. Tony

[Trisven13]

Many of the dogs we get out of the pound have never been on a lead in their lives, particularly working breed mixes. From what you've described I would think that she was quite possibly the last of a litter who hadn't rehomed so she ends up in the pound. In the time she was with her litter and at the home of the person who owned the mother dog they are unlikely to have thought about putting a lead on her - she would have just been one of the pups and thats for her owner to do. I'm pretty sure she is now at a fear stage (I should just know that) so it could just be that making it all the more frightening. Our little Basset Fauve De Bretagne had never been on a lead when we got her too and displayed very similar behaviours - we got past it by putting her on a tandem lead with our Cavalier who she loves and she just happily followed him along. Within 15 minutes she was comfortably walking on a lead.

Of course everything that has been said is a great idea - just think its important to not get caught up on the "something bad happened to them" theory as often that will have you seeing "abuse" behind every behaviour and inadvertently rewarding it. Just think of her as a pup whose never experienced walking and then you won't send her any accidental messages either.

[sidoney]

One question, if you don't use a check chain, aren't you worried about collars slipping over heads if the dog gets a bit headstrong.

I don't have dogs that have thick necks - all their neck sizes are smaller than their skull sizes. If I did have a dog like that, I'd use a fabric martingale collar initially.

Also probably because I take it so step by step, I can't remember having a dog try to pull back out of a collar. They just accept it as a restraint.

Oh! Apart from, after being adopted, that timid foster I mentioned in my first post, at a lure coursing day. She was SOOO keen to get the lure that she dragged the lead out of her owner's hand, then after that she slipped her collar, which was replaced by a martingale type collar that I had in the car. She is Kelpie x Whippet and does have a skinny head.

Edited September 9, 2007 by sidoney

[hortfurball]

Thanks for your responses.

I'll just treat it as if she's an uncertain pup then and not presume anything about history!

Baby steps and praise and treats when she does good.

I'm not too worried. I've just always had super confident dogs so I'm unfamiliar with this behaviour. She's my first submissive one.

With Ella, I just popped the chain over her head and away we went. No reaction at all!

[persephone]

Yep..poor little thing probably has not been "on a lead"..BUT may have had something around her neck at some stage..to hold her still or something?

She is only young, and everything is odd

the slow approach sounds good

she does sound very bright..have fun with her!

our pups are always introduced to 'leading' on a long, long rope.....so they can feel a bit more in control..and when they get to the end of it, don't see the restraint as coming from us , rather , they see it as a reminder to not go too far away ...we then call them back, and they get treats...within a short time they know their limits, and are happy to wander and explore .

Edited September 9, 2007 by persephone

[hortfurball]

Update: Ebony has a lovely new comfortable well fitted collar, no probs there, she doesn't mind her collar at all.

I clipped the lead onto it to let her drag it around...well, good in theory but it's hard to drag if you don't move!

Basically she still just doesn't move, occasionally will follow me to another room, then flop.

She moves such a minimal amount with it on it is so hard to get her comfortable with it.

I've tried in the house, I've tried in the yard, no difference, she just lies down and belly crawls to me for the treats.

And after a while she lies there and chews it, so she'll kill it before she gets used to it!

In the couple of weeks since I posted, there's been no change. I was hoping she'd be ready by the next puppy playdate, but she wasn't, so it took us 15 minutes to get to the car! I thought puppy playdates might put a positive association to going out on leash too but still no luck.

So I stepped it up a bit on Sunday, treats in hand, off we went out of the front door. I live in a cul-de-sac so nice and quiet. Just thought we'd go three or four houses down and then come back, and up it a house a day.

Half an hour later we got to house number four! I spent most of the time on my knees! But I have my solution I think! By house number two I could hear Ella howling because her friend was gone. I'm going to try them both together this evening. (weather too horrible the last couple of days - hopefully the rain will hold off)

If she'll walk with Ella she'll get the idea. She's copied so many things from Ella I think it just may work! If she sees how excited Ella is to be on leash then hopefully she'll think it's a good thing!

[hortfurball]

Well that was interesting, to say the least!

Flatmate took Ella and I took Ebony. Took about 10 minutes to get her away from the front door even with Ella waiting on the lawn, and being led back to Ebony and away again. Once I got her down the steps and about a metre away, she walked...or more like crabwalked without lying down again down to the end of the street and back (baby steps). Was she straining towards Ella? No! She was straining toward every house we passed like she thought they were all 'home' and wanted to go there. Silly me went to the right too so it was a constant tangle with my legs! My left shoulder is still aching from just trying to hold her slightly away from my legs so she'd get the idea and walk on that side! The way back was easier on the shoulder!

Just totally bizarre behaviour! I'm so confuzzled!

[Kadbury]

Just wondered if u could borrow a harness rather than a collar -just to see how she goes....It might not be so scarey for her....Keep it on her for a few mins then extend the time....then try taking her round the yard with your other dog .....Just a thought......I know we would all try anything for a happy pup.....good luck

[sas]

I'd just leave the lead on her in the house and just ignore her, she can decide not to move for a day but sooner or later she's gonna have to. I think she has you wrapped around her little paw.

The lead has to be a lightweight on though.

She sounds like a normal puppy not used to the lead. You can get her to accept the lead but then understanding how to walk on a lead is another story LOL

[hortfurball]

Kadbury, I have a car harness I bought especially for her because she's so much smaller than the others that my other one won't fit her. She's none too keen on that either!

Sas, I think you may be right about her having me wrapped around her little paw ;) but you haven't met her! She's too endearing for words! She follows me around the house and just flops at my feet wherever I am! (when she's not playing chasey or wrestling with Ella that is!)

I am still putting the leash on her at home, inside and outside, but not for too long each time.

[sas]

They have light bulb moments, some days you think they'll never get it LOL

[Mushaka]

i have webbing check,halti,lupi,harness and normal collars. I found walking my pup with another dog was the best way to train her to get used to it. Do u have another dog,or a friends dog u can walk with? I used a "coupler" and the older dog just showed her the ropes.

With your dog,i would do as others said,and only use webbing lead a collars. The sound of chain lead might be frightening.

Some dogs hate the feeling of the collar and a harness might be more suitable.

Good on you for rescuing!!!

ETA..sorry,missed the part where u said u have other dogs..der!! hey,its 4.45am..teething baby has me up,and now she is asleep i cant get back GGrrr

Edited September 27, 2007 by Lewis & Lyn