Vaccination Time Again

[Jed]

A vaccination protocol came out of North America some years ago. Reseach by Dr Jean Dodd DVM and others. The AVA recommended the 3 yearly protocol a few years ago for Aust, but a lot of vets aren't following it. According to research, it appears that once dogs have 2 puppy vacs, and a booster at 12 - 14 months, they are covered for life.

Rappie also attended this years AVA conference, and the matter of vaccinations was on the agenda. She has posted it elsewhere on this site.

Those of us who don't vaccinate annually didn't decide for no good reason that we wouldn't. We read the research, consulted with our vets, and made an informed decision.

Bethmd - older dogs can contract parvo. Staffies, rotties, RR and chis amongst others are very susceptible.

Also, with the vaccination regime which was in use, it is believed that too many vaccinations negate each other and the dog is not protected at all. Which is why I believe some adult dogs get parvo and die --- but there is insufficient evidence.

Most pups are protected by maternal immunity. This fades at around 6 weeks. The pup then receives his first vaccination. However, no one is quite sure whether there is maternal immunity or not. If there is maternal immunity, the vaccine may cancel that, and the pup is then unprotected. Then he is given another vac. at 12 weeks - and if the first one didn't work the 12 week one will. The one at 12 - 14 months is a booster. Some vets believe the dog is then protected for life, but the protocol is to vaccinate every 3 years. Some protocols recommend first vac at 8 weeks, when maternal immunity is very likely to have faded, and I am leaning towards this.

I personally don't vaccinate every 3 years, but I don't recommend others do this. I occasionally have had my dogs titre tested at 6 or thereabouts, and their antibodies have always been very high.

There is quite a lot of information on this forum - if you search "Dodd" and "vaccination" it should come up.

Incidentally, there is considerable anecdotal evidence of older dogs being vaccinated and within a very short time, contracting lymphoma, or some other form or cancer, and the belief is that the vaccine was responsible.

Edited September 7, 2007 by Jed

[Golden Rules]

Incidentally, there is considerable anecdotal evidence of older dogs being vaccinated and within a very short time, contracting lymphoma, or some other form or cancer, and the belief is that the vaccine was responsible.

I would vouch for that having lost an older dog to lymphoma some 12 months after he had a C5 vaccination.

Edited September 7, 2007 by Duncan+Dougal

[daccies]

Thank you for all that information. Off to search topic here ....

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

All I'm saying is that it pays to do some independent research rather than follow what someone on a forum says they do. Vaccination is one of those topics that divides opinion even among the professionals. My current vet supports a 3 yr protocol with the vaccines that have been in use here for a number of years. He is of the belief that a dog is protected by that vaccine for a 3 yr period and that the protection may last for a greater or lesser period in the individual dog. As we are talking about the immune system, it's not a simple issue, and every dog's system will respond differently.

My previous vet believes in annual vaccinations, and while I'm sure he has his reasons that he believes are completely valid, there are other vets in the same city that have moved to a 3 yr protocol even though all these vets use the same vaccines.

I come from a perspective that respects both western and more traditional therapies. I use this philosophy to treat myself AND my dogs. And I research by talking with a variety of professionals in the field, by reading books, by joining discussion forums such as DOL, and by understanding that everyone is entitled to their beliefs and opinions even though we may disagree.

IF titre testing was firstly available in Darwin, and secondly affordable, I'd opt for that before another vaccination went into any of my dogs. But I can't access it ATM so it's a pointless wish at this stage. Oh, and most kennels here still insist on C5 vax regardless...so if we board, we have to vaccinate.

[Jed]

Frankly, I'd be prepared to put my trust in Dr. Jean Dodd DVM, and American vet, who has been researching vaccines for over 20 years. Dr. Dodd is not the only one giving this message, and those of us on this forum who have been passing it on for some years DO take our own advice. No one is against vaccination, we are against OVER vaccination, which leads to many problems.

Lillysmum may put her faith in her vet and do what he tells her, but based on all the information on vaccinating, I am the one paying the bill, so I am the one telling my vet how often and with what my dogs will be vaccinated - and have been doing so for the past 10 years, as have others on this forum

Here is the protocol - for about the 10th time. Remember, we didn't invent it!! We simply relate it for your information.

NEW!!! VACCINATION PROTOCOL

by Dr. Jean Dodd

- ----------------------------------------------------------

VACCINATION NEWSFLASH [CIMDA support] RE: J DODDS VACCINE PROTOCOL

I would like to make you aware that all 27 veterinary schools in

North America are in the process of changing their protocols for

vaccinating dogs and cats. Some of this information will present an ethical

& economic challenge to Vets, and there will be skeptics. Some

organizations have come up with a political compromise suggesting

vaccinations every 3 years to appease those who fear loss of income vs.

those concerned about potential side effects. Politics, traditions, or the

doctors

economic well-being should not be a factor in a medical decision.

NEW PRINCIPLES OF IMMUNOLOGY

Dogs and cats immune systems mature fully at 6 months. If a modified

live virus vaccine is given after 6 months of age, it produces

immunity, which is good for the life of the pet (I.e.: canine distemper,

parvo,feline distemper). If another MLV vaccine is given a year later, the

antibodies from the first vaccine neutralize the antigens of the

second vaccine and there is little or no effect. The titer is not "boosted"

nor are more memory cells induced. Not only are annual boosters for

parvo and distemper unnecessary, they subject the pet to potential risks

of allergic reactions and immune-mediated haemolytic anemia. There is

no scientific documentation to back up label claims for annual

administration of MLV vaccines. Puppies receive antibodies through their

mothers milk. This natural protection can last 8 - 14 weeks. Puppies &

kittens

should NOT be vaccinated at LESS than 8 weeks. Maternal immunity will

neutralize the vaccine and little protection (0-38%) will be produced.

Vaccination at 6 weeks will, however, DELAY the timing of the first highly

effective vaccine. Vaccinations given 2 weeks apart SUPPRESS rather

than stimulate the immune system. A series of vaccinations is given

starting at 8 weeks and given 3-4 weeks apart up to 16 weeks of age. Another

vaccination given sometime after 6 months of age (usually at l year 4 MO)

will provide LIFETIME IMMUNITY.

For anyone who wants to know more, try googling vaccines + Jean Dodd + O'Driscoll + Dr Bob Rogers - any or all of them, and see what comes up.

Happy reading!!

[Jed]

But wait, there's more. This is from Dr. Bob Rogers, DVM - in America. Just ignore the bits about rabies and Lyme disease. We don't vac for them as routine in Australia.

New Principles of Immunology-Canine

Immunity is not controlled entirely by antibody levels as we once thought. Immunity is controlled by memory cells. Memory cells are B and T lymphocytes. These are white blood cells which stand ready in the body to respond with protective antibodies when challenged by a disease agent. Memory cells, once programmed, persist for the lifetime of the animal. Therefore it is possible to have low antibody levels (or titer) and still have protective immunity. Although memory cells cannot be measured, their presence can be demonstrated by challenge studies. (23)

Dogs' & cats' immune systems mature fully at 6 months. If a modified live virus (MLV) vaccine is given after 6 months of age, it produces an immunity which is good for the life of the pet (i.e. canine distemper, parvo, feline distemper)(15- p35, 20, 21, 23) Modified live virus vaccines must replicate to stimulate the immune system. If another MLV vaccine is given, the antibodies from the first vaccine block the replication of the new virus. The actively acquired immunity in effect neutralizes the antigens of second vaccine, and there is little or no effect. (8,15,16,19,23a,23c) The titer (level of immunity) is not "boosted" nor are memory cells expanded.

Not only are annual boosters for parvo and distemper unnecessary (6), they subject the pet to the potential risk of adverse reactions like allergic reactions, Immune Mediated Hemolytic Anemia (4, 21) (a disease where the dog rejects its' own blood) and Injection Site Fibrosarcomas for cats.

The AVMA Council on Biologic and Therapeutic Agents has stated: There is no scientific documentation to back up label claims for annual administration of modified live virus vaccines.

Puppies receive antibodies through their mother's milk (colostrum) the very first time they nurse. This natural protection can last up to 8 - 14 weeks. Puppies & kittens should not be vaccinated at less than 8 weeks. Maternal immunity will neutralize the vaccine & only a few (0 -35%) will be protected(6, 7, 11, 13, 20, 21, 23). Unfortunately, taking this unprotected baby out of the house and to a veterinary clinic will expose it to parvovirus without protection. Vaccination at home by a breeder at 6 weeks may provide protection for some puppies (0 -35%) It is the not the vaccination at 6 weeks that is objectionable, but the increased risk of exposure to the Parvovirus you are trying to protect against. Vaccination at 6 weeks will, however, delay the timing of the first highly effective vaccine.

Vaccination of dogs for Distemper at too young of an age has been shown to cause Hypertropic Osteodystrophy, especially in Weimaraners. Vaccinations given 2 weeks apart suppress rather than stimulate the immune system (6, 27, 23).

A series of vaccinations is recommended starting at 8 weeks and given 3 - 4 weeks apart up to 16 weeks of age. Another MLV vaccination given sometime after 6 months of age (usually at 1 year & 4 months) will provide lifetime immunity (15, 20, 21, 23)

Current Recommendations for Dogs

Distemper and Parvovirus In 1994, Ft. Dodge marketed a new high titer Parvovirus vaccine (RF11). Testing by Dr. Ron Schultz demonstrated that this vaccine and a new high titer vaccine from Immunovet (Proguard) provided much better protection than all other vaccines against canine parvovirus (19,23). When studies by Dr Schultz demonstrated that the new high titer vaccines by Fort Dodge and Intervet were much more effective, Meriel improved their product to match. Pfizer came out with a high titer vaccine, Vanguard puppy. Pfizer and Biocor still market the old vaccines, Vanguard 5 and Biocor.

The frustrating experiences we had prior to 1995, with vaccine breaks were largely resolved by the new improved vaccines. Attempts to improve the efficacy by more frequent administration of the vaccine are no longer necessary.

According to Dr. Schultz in the Journal of the AVMA Aug. 15. 1995, when a vaccination series given at 2, 3, and 4 months and again at 1 year(>6m0) with a modified live virus, puppies and kittens program memory cells that survive for life, providing lifelong immunity for diseases like Parvo and Distemper.(6, 15, 20, 21,23).

Dr. Leland Carmichael at Cornell University and Dr. Schultz have studies showing immunity against challenge at 7 years for canine distemper and 7 years for parvovirus; and immunity by serology out to 15 years for distemper. (22,23 b). Studies for longer duration are pending (5, 13, 14, 15, 18, 22,23 b, 23c.) *A copy of Dr Schultz's study is in our pet care library for your convenience.

Adverse events from canine distemper vaccine include vaccine induced distemper, vaccine induced folliculitis, and HOD (hypertropic osteodystrophy). HOD is most common in Wiemaraners.

Virus drift There are no new strains of parvovirus as some would like to suggest. Parvovirus vaccination provides cross immunity for all types.

Dogs will not get Parvo from the vaccine, but when the vaccine is administered at a vet clinic to 6 wk old puppies only 30% will respond to the vaccine with any protection while all will likely be exposed. It is likely some of them will come down with parvo which they caught at the Vet Clinic. For this reason we do not start the initial series of vaccinations until the puppies are 8 wks old and are better able to respond to the vaccine.*** It is not the vaccination at 6 wks that I object to but the increased exposure to the virus at the Vet Clinic at an age when maternal antibodies will interfere with the response to the vaccination. I would encourage breeders who have a problem with Parvovirus to vaccinate puppies at home with Parvo, but not Distemper, and only at 6 weeks and no younger, to aid in cutting losses.

Hepatitis (Adenovirus)- (CAV2) is one of the agents known to be a cause of "kennel cough." Only vaccines with CAV-2 should be used as CAV-1 vaccines carry the risk of "hepatitis blue-eye" reactions and kidney damage. Hepatitis (CAV1) in dogs is a very rare disease. I see several cases per year of "blue eye" from CAV 1 Vaccine purchased at a feed store. I have never seen a dog with hepatitis.

Bordetella - Parainfluenza Commonly called "kennel cough," the Parainfluenza vaccine is recommended only for those dogs boarded, groomed, taken to dog shows, or for any reason housed where exposed to a lot of dogs. The intranasal vaccine provides more rapid onset of immunity with less chance of reaction (23). Immunity requires 72 hours and does not protect from every cause of "kennel cough"

The vaccine does not contain the serovar of bordetella that a dog would likely be exposed to. It is the parainfluenza portion that is of benefit. Unfortunately an intranasal vaccine for parainfluenza without bordetella is not available.

Rabies Although there have been no reported cases of rabid dogs or cats in Harris County, Montgomery County, or Ft. Bend County, there have been rabid skunks and bats, so the potential exists.

If a dog or cat bites someone and is not vaccinated, it must be quarantined in a licensed facility. Rabies vaccine is highly recommended for your pets protection. This is a killed vaccine. Killed vaccines provide a shorter duration of immunity than MLV (19). Duration of immunity for rabies vaccine has been shown to be at least 7 years.(23b)

In Texas, rabies vaccination is required to be administered at four months of age, one year later, and then every three years for dogs. To help prevent injection site fibrosarcomas, a one year duration of immunity non- adjuvanted vaccine, Purevac, has been approved for cats. This vaccine must be administered annually. A three year license is pending.

Canine corona virus is only a disease of puppies less than eight weeks of age (15- p20). It is a rare, self-limiting disease (i.e. dogs get well in 3 days without treatment)(3). Corona virus does not cause disease in adult dogs. Cornell University and Texas A&M University have only diagnosed one case each in the last 7 years. For a veterinarian to make a diagnosis of Corona Virus based on clinical signs is highly presumptive. Only electron microscopy of feces can verify the presence of canine corona virus. This is only done at places such as Texas A & M Diagnostic Laboratory, and they report no positive tests. The presence of the virus does not indicate it is the cause of disease. Dogs over 8 wks of age cannot and have not been experimentally induced to exhibit disease from corona virus. This is age related immunity.

Immunologists have reason to believe that the vaccine does not work. Mucosal secretory IgA antibodies would be necessary to protect a dog against this disease & an injectable vaccine will not provide this type of protection.(13, 19- p18, 21) I see no justification for the use of corona virus vaccine.

In 1985 a significant number of dogs (>189) died from encephalitis caused by Corona Virus vaccine, combined with the Rockborn strain distemper. (3, 21) An unfortunate & heartbreaking catastrophe caused by an unnecessary vaccine.

Leptospirosis vaccine is a common cause of adverse reactions in dogs ranging from life threatening anaphylactic reactions to mild facial swelling and urticaria.

Leptospirosis is an infection of the kidneys and liver. Dogs and people get it from contact with urine from rats, raccoons, cows and pigs. The risk of contagion from dogs to humans is very low.

Most of the clinical cases of leptospirosis reported in dogs in the U.S. are caused by serovars (or types) L. grippotyphosa, L. pomona and L. bratislava.(1, 9, 15-p20, 21) The most commonly used vaccines contain different serovars-L. canicola & L.icterohaemmorrhagiae. Cross protection is not provided and protection is short-lived (6 - 7 months)(19) New Vaccines recently introduced by Fort Dodge include L. grippotyphosa., and L. pomona .

Although Leptospirosis in dogs seems to be increasing in Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, and New York, this disease is rare in Texas. Records at Texas Veterinary Medical Diagnostic Lab show an average of 12 cases of Leptospirosis in dogs in Texas per year. In 2000 the TVMDL recorded L. Icterohaemorrhagiae -3 cases, L. canicola -2, L. pomona -2, L grippotyphosa -1. Texas A&M University reports 31 cases in 21 years. Although this is a serious and life threatening disease, in a state with an estimated dog population of over 7 million, I do not think the risk justifies routine vaccination, with two vaccines twice per year.

This vaccine should not be given to puppies less than 16 weeks of age as it is very immunosuppressive. It can interfere with immunization against parvo & distemper. Reactions are common. Deaths due to immunosupression can occur.

Lyme Disease is a tick born disease which can cause lameness, kidney failure and heart disease in dogs and people. Ticks transmit the disease to humans. Eighty five percent of Lyme disease cases in dogs in the USA are found in nine New England area states Michigan and Wisconsin.

We do not have Lyme disease in Texas. In the N.E. U. S. Ixodid ticks acquire the Lyme disease organism from the deer mouse. The Ixodid tick in Texas feeds on lizards which do not transmit Lyme disease.

Confusion as to the occurrence of Lyme disease in Texas exists due to three things. #1. In Texas we have a disease that closely resembles Lyme Disease, Southern Tick Associated Rash Illness or STARI cause by Borrelia lonestari and spread by the Lone Star Tick. ( Lyme disease is caused by Borrelia burgdoferi and spread by Ixodes scapularis.) #2.Lyme disease testing with the most commonly used test can give a false positive reaction to normal spirochete organisms in a dogs mouth. #3 Manufacturers of the vaccine and the test exaggerate the incidence of the disease in order to sell their product.

Texas A&M University has never seen a case of Lyme disease in a dog from Texas.

The advent of a new ,more accurate Lyme disease Test (Snap Test by Idexx) in 2000 will hopefully give us better information about the non-existence of this disease in Texas.

The average dog in Houston would be at very no risk of contracting Lyme disease. If you travel to endemic areas with your dog, you may still want to consider the safety & effectiveness of Lyme disease vaccine. Dr. Jacobson, Cornell Diagnostic Lab, reported a temporal relationship of 327 dogs which developed polyarthritis after vaccination with Lyme disease vaccine. These dogs did not show antibody titers suggestive of Lyme disease infection. Other causes of arthritis were ruled out. Lyme vaccine has been demonstrated to cause arthritis in hamsters. There is a class action suit in human medicine for failure to warn people about the possibility of developing polyarthritis from human Lyme disease vaccine.

The main antigen displayed by the Lyme disease organism inside the dogs body is Outer Surface Protein B- OSP B. Newer PCR vaccines by Muriel and Schering only contain OSP A antigens. The importance of OSP B & C antigens were discovered after the new vaccines were developed (2, 11)

Theoretically OSP A antibodies in the blood of an immunized dog are ingested by a tick. This prevents the bacteria from reproducing within the tick and therefore from being injected into the dog, if antibodies are in high enough concentrations.

Most Colleges of Veterinary Medicine do not recommend Lyme Disease vaccine.

Lyme disease prevention should emphasize early removal of ticks. Ticks must be attached to the dog for 24 hours to transmit the disease. Amitraz (Preventick) collars are more effective than Frontline as Amitraz paralyzes the tick’s mouth parts preventing transmission of disease (11). Amitraz tick collars should be used with extreme caution, as they are toxic if chewed on or swallowed by a dog or children. Frontline takes 24 - 48 hours to kill ticks, allowing for the possibility of disease transmission. This is an important aid in tick control, but will not prevent the transmission of tick born diseases like Lyme disease, Ehrlichia, Babesia or Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. Vaccinating pets against Lyme disease does not provide any protection for the owners.

[Jed]

And yet more - from Catherine O'Driscoll this time

Canine Health Concern tested this observation and has analyzed the histories of over 3,800 dogs post vaccination. This critical mass, by any standards, is a very high number from which to draw valid statistical conclusions. Most commercial scientific research involves significantly fewer dogs (tending to base their conclusions on data involving a couple of litters of puppies, if that). We have been able to show a definite statistical correlation between a vaccine event and the onset of a number of specific illnesses. Our published conclusions have satisfied mathematical or inferential statistical tests at a level of confidence of 99% or better.

Overall, we found that 66% per cent of all sick dogs start being sick within three months of vaccination, which is considerably more than double the expected rate of illness. Worse, 49% of all illnesses reported in the survey occurred within 30 days of vaccination. This is over five times the expected percentage if vaccination had no bearing on subsequent illness. More damning still, 29% of sick dogs first became sick within seven days of their vaccine jab. This means that a dog is 13 times more likely to become ill within seven days of vaccination than at any other time.

In the study, 69.2% of allergic dogs first became allergic within three months of being vaccinated - more than double the expected number. 55.8% of dogs with autoimmune disease developed the condition within three months of being vaccinated - again, more than twice the expected figure. Of dogs with colitis, 65.9% developed the complaint within three months of being vaccinated and, of dogs with dry eye/conjunctivitis, 70.2% developed their conditions within three months - both nearly three times higher than expected. 73.1% of dogs with epilepsy first became epileptic within three months of vaccination. As 2% of all dogs in the UK are epileptic, vaccines are clearly causing horrendous damage. For statisticians, our Chi score for epilepsy is 96: any Chi test statistic higher than twelve gives a 95% confidence about the conclusions. Without doubt, then, the majority of epileptic dogs in our survey are vaccine damaged.

But perhaps most astonishing is the fact that a majority of dogs (64.9%) with behavioral problems appear to have developed their difficulties within three months of vaccination. Similarly, 72.5% per cent of dogs with nervous or worrying dispositions became nervous within three months of their jabs (with a Chi score of 112), and 73.1% per cent of dogs with short attention spans lost their attentiveness within three months of vaccination.

All of our evidence ties in with research in the human field, and a growing body of veterinary research, which says that vaccines cause allergies, hypersensitivity reactions, autoimmune disease, encephalitis, epilepsy, personality changes and brain damage.

The CHC results are statistically very significant, and carry with them very high statistical certainty. This means that the evidence is strong that the above diseases can be triggered or caused by vaccination.

Other diseases that were highly represented within three months post vaccination included cancer (35.1%) , chorea (81%), encephalitis (78.6%), heart conditions (39.2%), kidney damage (53.7%), liver damage/failure (61.5%), paralysis of the rear end (69.2%), and pancreas problems (54.2%).

Research conducted at Purdue University shows routinely vaccinated dogs developing auto antibodies to a vast range of normal canine biochemicals - which corroborates our findings.

Interestingly, our study showed that arthritis and Chronic Destructive Reticulo Myelopathy (CDRM - a degenerative disease affecting myelin in the spinal cord) occur in clusters nine months after vaccination, suggesting that the damage from vaccines resulting in these two diseases takes longer to develop or to show their symptoms.

Many contend that vaccines are a necessary evil; that we need them to protect our dogs against certain deadly canine diseases. However, our survey found that high percentages of dogs are developing the diseases we vaccinate against, soon after vaccination.

Of dogs with hepatitis, 64% contracted it within three months of being vaccinated and, of those with parainfluenza, 50% developed it within three months of their shots. Also, 69% of dogs with parvovirus, 56% of dogs with distemper, and every single dog with leptospirosis in the survey contracted the diseases within three months of vaccination.

Our figures support the view that vaccines don't confer guaranteed immunity and may actually cause the diseases they're designed to prevent. Our figures appear to demonstrate that vaccines cause illness in one in every hundred dogs - and this is a conservative estimate.

For human beings, the World Health Organization considers a reaction of one in 10,000 unacceptable. Surely the same statistics apply to dogs. Worse - and bordering on corporate dog slaughter - is the fact that we are urged to vaccinate companion animals every year. There is no scientific justification for this; it is a crime.

This research is ongoing. For further details or to participate, contact Canine Health Concern @ Box 6943, Forfar, Angus DD8 3WG, Scotland or, for email, click on my name below.

Thank you.

Catherine O¹Driscoll

Canine Health Concern

Edited September 14, 2007 by Jed

[Poodle wrangler]

Gazette APVMA 6, 7 June 2005 page 12

NOTICE OF REGISTRATION OF AGRICULTURAL AND VETERINARY CHEMICAL PRODUCTS

Pursuant to the Agricultural and Veterinary Chemicals Code scheduled to the Agricultural and Veterinary Chemicals Code Act 1994, the APVMA hereby gives notice that it has registered or varied the registration in respect of the following products, with effect from the dates shown.

VETERINARY CHEMICAL PRODUCTS

.......

4.VARIATIONS

Product Name: Protech Duramune C3 Canine Distemper, Adenovirus & Parvovirus Live Vaccine

Applicant Name: Fort Dodge Australia Pty Limited

Summary of Use: The changes included the instruction leaflet to indicate that the vaccine are efficacious and protective in six week of age and older dogs for up to thirty-nine months following a second vaccination.

Date of Variation: 4 April 2005

Label Approval No: 51487/0205

.........

Cheryl Venables

Pesticides Division

Australian Pesticides and Veterinary Medicines Authority

PO Box E240

KINGSTON ACT 2604

Phone: (02) 6272 3894

Fax: (02) 6272 3218

Email: [email protected]

Sorry, I don't have original link any more and have edited out other products (long list)

Edited September 13, 2007 by Poodle wrangler

[daccies]

thank you for posting all thgat info. Look forward to hearing Australia's response.