bridgie_cat Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 Heya My guess is that there is not a lot that can be done in our case past better supervision and separation measures - but if someone on here has a good idea for possible training solutions - it would be very appreciated... Our 7 yo Jack russel X fox terrier (with long legs... thinking big fox terrier X) had another chicken killing rampage this morning - took out three hens & injured more... woulda been a masacre had the gardener not gotten mum down to get him... This is certainly not a first - but it is the only one in the last couple of years (we had hoped he had grown out of it!). The chooks are locked up 24/7 but for a determined dog they are not unreachable - the dog is locked in the backyard unless supervised, which he was today - but by the gardener instead of mum - aparently this is not the same controlling force (he would never dare touch a chook with mum around!) - and is on ocasion out because he sneaks off while with mum... He is of the mentality that "if they cant see, I can do what I like" - he absolutely knows that he isnt allowed to chase chooks, he isnt allowed to run away etc - but if he thinks we cant see him then he discards these rules. (my fav eg is when he has run off at night, will run around the house barking until someone comes out to call him - suddenly there is silence...) Often after breaking a rule he will come back acting very guilty - even if we dont know anything is up - so he definitely understands... So we have always been VERY strict about him taking any interest in chooks in hopes of scaring him off them - but again - if we are around he is meek and will not look at the chooks - as soon as he thinks he is alone - he makes his own rules. My guess is that having already done this a few times that it is a learnt thing - he can get away with it if we dont see him doing it - cant very well change it if he only does it when we are not around! Any training ideas - can anything be done? We are not sure where to go from here... We are keeping him no matter what - we are going to try our best to keep them separated as we have always done - but in the event that he gets another chance, a training based solution could save a chicken in the future... Bridget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 Bridgie, you will understand this much better looking at it from the inside of the Dog rather than from a Human perspective. Firstly I would say the most straightforward option is to make the Chook house and yard more Dog proof. Your attributing Human traits to this Dog,which to a dog mean nothing.Your seeing the Dog as guilty, but the Dog does not see himself as guilty at all.The Dog is responding to his very essence which is Prey Drive.Dogs do not grow out of Prey Drive. He is not making his own rules, as to do that he would have to have the power to intellectualise.When your Mum is around her presence blocks the Dogs flow of drive which to the Dog is a negative.When your Mum is not around the Chooks move,cluck,sqwark whatever triggering his Prey Drive and as there is nobody around supplying resistance to his drive it flows. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 BC - when it comes to stock chasing and, in your case, stock killing, you are dealing with strong genetics in play - not to mention the fact they've now been reinforced. I would be suggesting deployment of RT training with an e-collar. Have someone versed in the use of the e-collar come out to see you and the dog first so you can take tuition in its use. Have a look at Lou Castle's web-site. In particular his "crittering" program. This will give you an idea on how the e-collar can be used to suit your purpose. Crittering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monosylabik Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 i remember as a child my father tied a dead chicken that our Jack Russel had killed around his neck for a few hours. he never killed one again. we had a terrible time with him on our property killing chickens. quite a strange memory. i wouldn't recommend that at all, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridgie_cat Posted September 4, 2007 Author Share Posted September 4, 2007 umm... guilt is the wrong word... but he understands that what he did = makes us angry - not so much that it was morally wrong - ie he understands that breaking the rules we have set out has consequences thus he has a very worried look on his face when he knows he has broken a rule - do you know what I mean?? Mono - we once had a blue heeler kill a chook and had this method recommended... to cut a long story short, he ate the chook and was VERY pleased with himself ... dont think he continued to kill chooks... certainly woulda been yelled at so that probably did it... not the tying around the neck thing! crittering looks ok... the difference being that he wouldnt link us to the punishment... so our absence may be less of an issue... hmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 (we had hoped he had grown out of it!). He's not going to grow out of it - he's a terrier. What Tonymc suggested - dog proof the chook yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji's Mum Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 Dog-proof it. One of mine ate a chook after being with them for a year but she also picked up a lot in confidence and energy levels around that time, so I was pleased for her that she was feeling better and separated them. OH chases them around with the dead chicken for a while and I think they take less notice of the chookhouse as a result, but it's just not my thing and I haven't the heart to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsD Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 Our dogs have got 2 of our chooks so far. I think, as has already been suggested, strengthening the chook run or using a remote trainer are probably the 2 best options. Unfortunately our incident was at a time when we couldnt be sure which particular dog it was, so we took the former option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 Hmm.. I'm not sure that he really DOES know he has broken a rule.... My guess is that his expression is a direct result of your body language.He interpets your body language and to him, it means something unpleasant Dogs can read ever-so-subtle changes in our posture, voice, eye contact etc, as this is how THEY communicate a lot of feelings. So, as others have said..he will not grow out of it, and the chook pen does need to be dog-proofed I found this info which may help you in that regard. http://forums.permaculture.org.au/viewtopic.php?t=950 Training info..you have been given some ideas, hopefully you won't have a repeat performance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenb Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 My staffy killed 5 chickens one night recently. We don't know how she got in but she was fast, silent and deadly. Security has been beefed up but there is no hope of training this one to leave them alone. One of his favourite games is to run around with the border collie and hang off the scruff of his neck (no aggression and no damage done). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monosylabik Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 haha that must look hilarious, stephen! bridgie cat - our JRT never ate them, only liked to kill them. i can just imagine the look on your dogs face after he'd finished his meal! haha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Have you ever seen chickens being chased?, it's all feathers and noise. If I was a dog I think this would be the best game ever. I agree with the better fencing suggestions. Sorry about your chickens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOE Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Get rid of the chooks after all he is a terrier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridgie_cat Posted September 9, 2007 Author Share Posted September 9, 2007 (edited) yup - certainly it is a lot of fun - these chooks are partcularly crazy (although any chook would be v crazy in these circumstances) - and being bantams are the perfect size too. Have reinforced the run and no longer allowing him such freedom out there. Biggest issue is that I would hate for Lana to start this game - she is herding ducks... but I think if she was taught the killing game there would be no going back! Luckily she was not out with him for the masacre. Just thought I would ask incase anyone had any good suggestions - but already knew it was instinctual and a self reinforcing behaviour and having done it a few times is deferz nice and solid in there... oh well - will just take better measures to separate him from the chooks! Thanks for the replies! Bridget isaviz - have you been talking to my mum?! she has been gunning for those chooks to go for ages! ... quite frankly they eat food all year and only lay eggs for a couple weeks - and when they do we cant eat enough to keep up! ... then they stop again quite useless creatures! Edited September 9, 2007 by bridgie_cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityBites Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 This is not helpful in anyway whatsoever, but I used to have a Yorkshire Terrier and caught him one day desperately trying to kill a chook. He was on top of her, feathers in his mouth, grabbing as many feathers as he could and she was just wandering around, looking over her shoulder every so often giving him 'fowl' looks He would have had to have given that poor chook a red hot go for several days before doing any damage! I think the hens all laughed at him behind his back, he never did kill one, but god it was hilarious watching him try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Ive got chickens and a duck they are in a dog proof pen. The dogs were on a mission to get them but I discouraged them, and encouraged to play with me insead. I did that every day and showed the dogs that the chcikens are not a toy, not food and that they are under my protection. Its been about 2-3 months now, I used to get the chickens out and have dogs on lead etc getting used to the chickens and rewarding them for no reactions. I wouldnt leave the dogs with the chooks unsupervised but this is taken couple of days ago, and as you can see Divani doesnt even have the collar on. She does love that bred we give them tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poodle wrangler Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 As others have said- it's a natural thing for your dog to want to do. Even my miniature poodle (not reknowned for their prey drive) has killed a bird that was too slow in the backyard. Has chased chickens, too, though not given the opportunity to kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 How often have we heard, that people's dogs will not attack their owners chickens, but will happily - have fun with the neighbours. Control control control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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