MonElite Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 The puppy is 4 months old. The puppys FIRST day out of the yard was last weekend. Puppy not worried about anything, happy to play amongst dozens of strange dogs and people it has never seen before. Inquisitive, wants to check out things for itself. If you wanted a dog for obedincence and possibly schutzhund (if it had enough drives for it) would you take a puppy that age that has not been socialised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 No. Its not just the dogs lack of socialisation to outside stimulus that would bother me. I firmly believe that if you socialise the dog to training and how to learn during its critical period, teaching new exercises is MUCH easier for the rest of the dogs life. Has the pup had any training? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 My experience isn't vast enough to give a qualified opinion, but for myself I wouldn't now that I understand something of critical periods. I guess there is a possibility that the puppy may have good enough nerve to overcome the conditioning that it has missed out on.....but I personally wouldn't feel confident enough to judge that yet. Having said that, I do know of dogs that weren't socialised early and they seem to do OK....but what is it about them that they do OK...is it a hit and miss thing or something that can be judged early? Also, is one outing in one particular environment enough to judge on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 (edited) If you wanted a dog for obedincence and possibly schutzhund (if it had enough drives for it) would you take a puppy that age that has not been socialised? Are you asking : "take it to obedience school/schutzhund training" ? Or are you asking : "adopt the pup for the purpose of obedience/schutzhund training"? If the former - Yes I would. But I would build up to it. Mostly positive socialisation experiences and hardly any training (just basic things and making it fun). Depending on pup's reactions, I might initially simply stay on the quiet outskirts rather than join in with the actual classes. If the latter - can't answer. I'd need to see the pup for myself. Would prefer to have had the pup at an earlier age for bonding as well as carefully structured socialisation and basics of training, but that doesn't rule out the possibilities of it being able to become a great dog for the purpose in mind. Edited September 3, 2007 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted September 3, 2007 Author Share Posted September 3, 2007 Erny "adopt the pup for the purpose of obedience/schutzhund training"? Yes this is what Im saying. The goals for the puppy would be: be stable enough to be shown in conformation ring (not atlking about looks just temperament) be able to be trained to be trailed in obedience possibly be trained to IPOI level - providing it had what it took to achieve that. The puppy has had show stacking training, and was walked on lead twice outside the yard with no problems. The puppy was taken to the show on Sat and Sun gone and was happy to play with a stange person with a toy while being souronded by many people and dogs. It looked as if its owned the joint Went to people, ate lunch in the crate next to a grown up dog that it had never seen before. Drooled in the car - second time in the car ever. On arrival when taken out of the car it took about 1-2 minutes for it to look around and decide that its ok to put the tail up and the world hasnt collapsed as yet. It was very happy for the rest of the day. Happy with people ahnding it, happy to play with anyone, comes when called, I threw a large bag about 5 times the size of the puppy when it was drowning itself in a bucket getting a drink right next to the pupp, it lifted the head up from the bucket to see what happened and went back to playing with water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 (edited) If I were looking for a dog to train for the goals you describe Myzska, I'd probably pay for a professional evaluation. If the pup has great nerve, at least it hasn't had bad experiences but I'd be a little concerned about what it might have missed out on. Edited September 3, 2007 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 If the former - Yes I would. But I would build up to it. Mostly positive socialisation experiences and hardly any training (just basic things and making it fun). Depending on pup's reactions, I might initially simply stay on the quiet outskirts rather than join in with the actual classes.If the latter - can't answer. I'd need to see the pup for myself. Would prefer to have had the pup at an earlier age for bonding as well as carefully structured socialisation and basics of training, but that doesn't rule out the possibilities of it being able to become a great dog for the purpose in mind. I agree with Erny. If you wanted a dog for obedincence and possibly schutzhund (if it had enough drives for it) would you take a puppy that age that has not been socialised? Depends on how much the lack of socialization has affected the dog. Generally speaking I would not get the pup though. It is hard to say without seeing the pup whether he will be a good prospect or not. I take it he is a Dobe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted September 3, 2007 Author Share Posted September 3, 2007 JJ - female dobe, and no not from working lines either. But I know both parents and all 4 grandparents and they are very stable, easy going, open dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Are you going to take her down to WSDSC? I would take her down and see what they say. Is she your new pup? You sure do like having the odds stacked against you...training a female Dobermann from showlines for Schutzhund in Australia... Just stirring, but from memory Meinemann Mali is the only female Dobe to be born and trained with any success for Schutzhund in Aus. I would be interested to know how you go with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted September 3, 2007 Author Share Posted September 3, 2007 Is she your new pup? No, not my pup but I could consider taking it on Thinking only for now. You sure do like having the odds stacked against you...training a female Dobermann from showlines for Schutzhund in Australia... ;) ;) Yep I like challenges and I like proving people wrong :p :p My friends have a 8 month old dobie male that they took to the club recently to see what will the people think of it. General consencus was that the puppy is great, just the owners dont know enough and didnt train it so far enough hence the dog is unrully. Id say the club people were not so much impressed by him but pleasently surprised that he is the way he is with no preparation. Weather the owners be enough interested in the bite work - that I cant tell you, but they want to persue the obedience. I know the dog he is lovely, nothing phases him, bottomless guts - will eat anything, show him a toy he goes nuts for it too. You run around he will be biting your ankles or your arms in play till the cows come home I have countless bruises, scratches, and bites from him. And he is 3/4 the same breeding as this girl.... As to working v's show - someone tried to tell me recently that some of those working dobes could be shown as they are very good looking, I said that I wouldnt take one to the car park at EP let anone anywhere near the ring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 someone tried to tell me recently that some of those working dobes could be shown as they are very good looking, I said that I wouldnt take one to the car park at EP let anone anywhere near the ring laugh.gif :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 I would give the pup the benefit of the doubt,but I would have some reservation about him not being from working lines is the intended purpose was Shutzhund. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Youngster sounds as though he enjoys life. Test his drive. At 16 weeks, it would be interesting, to say the least. You can see the bit extra at 4 months, if it is there at all?? Show dog.....doubt it though. Depends on the level, and I have no experiece with Schutzhund training or trialling. I would look at the sire and dam closely, veeeeery closely. Are they active types????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Would depend on the pup's ability and time taken to bounce back if startled by something new. This would tell me how sound his nerves were. You can always build on sound nerves. Hope that makes sense....doped up on pain killers at the mo..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TangerineDream Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 There's a fair chance that if the next fear periods are handled carefully and sensitively and the pup has the drive(s) you are seeking, that you might have a reasonable contender on your hands for both obedience and schutzhund. I've not taken pups out (on the ground) till 16 weeks (min) and that's 4 Dobes (incl 2 x CD, 1 x ROM) and 2 GSP's - none of these dogs has had any problems with socialisation. Tango (now 2 yo) didn't set foot on the ground outside the yard till 18 weeks old (I didn't bring him home till 14 weeks due to work commitments) and then promptly took to everything like a duck to water. We worked through the fear periods carefully and I now have a dog who has gone straight into the 2nd top class at obedience with flying colours at 22 months with only short training periods daily at home and on walks, has very strong prey drive, has been proofed to gunshot, and took to agility with enthusiasm - nothing phases him.... I think she sounds worth spending a bit of time with while you consider whether she's the girl for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasha Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 You already sound pretty keen on it and personally I think that it is your choice. from what you have said so far the pup doesn't seem to have a problem when it encountered the outside world and in fact thoroughly thrived on it. I would say if it didn't have any fearful tendancies or negative reactions to normal everyday things, and has the drives you want, give it a go. You seem to have looked up her lines and relatives and like what you have seen. I wouldn't let people that have never seen the dog and how it behaves decide for me whether I should have it or not. I don't know anything about training for shutzhund though so you would know better if it suits or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted September 4, 2007 Author Share Posted September 4, 2007 Im borrowing the puppy for the long weekend. I had asked WSDSC if they would give me an opinion and they will, although when I mentioned what Im considering I got rolling eyes :p not that I expected anything else :D Than my friends with the puppy that is 3/4 the same breeding had their first session with their 8 month unrully puppy with a tug toy. Overall concencus was - great dog, good grip, no issues, lucky noone messed around with him at all. several people around him new place dog grabbed the toy and hanged on to it being swang in the air straigh away. The owner is very inexperienced and never done anything like this. So he was told to stand still while John a BIG man did the helper work. The owner (6ft tall man) was unalble to hold on properly and the puppy nearly bawled John over, about 4 times Was hilirious. Advice to the owner - prey work for the dog 3 times a week, gym for the owner 5 times a week twice a day Overal comment - pleasure to see a nice dobe and if handled and trained correctly is definitelly suitable for the sport. Its now up to the owners to decide if they want to do the sport, I hope they will. So if this girl is anything like it (the breeder says its a female clone of him) I might take her on. That is only if I like her 100% in every way, show potential being an important part. As mentioned before my aims for the dog are: show and obedience dogsport or agility in the above order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 Sounds promising :D So you will have 3 Dobes? And I thought I was a sucker for punishment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted September 4, 2007 Author Share Posted September 4, 2007 I thought I was a sucker for punishment :D You are, Im not expecting a skin kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 Sounds like a nice pup. Has she been kept in a run? Or in the house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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