Any Horse Trainers On Dol?

[BJean]

hairy winter pics of the subject taken this morning:

[Benji's Mum]

You can try a twitch on his top lip, or pinch a fold of skin on his neck or hold one ear.

Use google to research these methods as they make the horse produce some calming hormones, can't remember much about it, and discuss them with your farrier first.

I have seen sidelines and hobbles used and I have successfully used a jumper tucked under each side of the halter as a blindfold in emergencies.

He's a big boy!

[sidoney]

Please don't nose, neck or ear twitch the horse. This won't help him learn and you could end up with a permanently ear-shy horse. I've seen ear-twitched horses that are head-shy - many of them - some people on the Arab stud where I used to work, many years ago, ear twitched instead of trained horses to be confident with things. My 18yo boy that I got from there is still stressed about having his ears touched.

It can be uncomfortable for a horse to stand for a farrier. Holding up a leg can be tiring and strain the muscles. This may be happening to your boy. How long do you hold his legs up for, in training?

(You may also want to get him physically checked, in case he's having some pain.)

If he mucks up, it's usually either stroppy mucking up (don't want to do this, it's hard work) or nervous mucking up (this is hurting, I'm worried I'm going to fall over or get whacked or that something bad will happen). Not always easy to tell which.

I'm giving you a link here to the first page in a sequence of pages that give you some tools to help train calm behaviour with the farrier. The first one is circling to get calm behaviour with the farrier and the second one is clicker training for calm behavior with the farrier. Particularly if the horse is nervous, emphasis needs to be on rewards.

If you can, get a training partner to be the "farrier" so you can work with the exercises regularly. Remember to work on duration of holding the leg up.

ETA: he's a cutie! So squoodgable!

Edited September 3, 2007 by sidoney

[Benji's Mum]

Oooh no, would never ear or neck twitch but I've used nose twitching heaps and if you're gentle, mine didn't mind.

[Erny]

As per Sydoney ..... I am opposed to ear twitching for the very reasons she mentions. I have nose twitched on a couple of occasions and for a horse that needed dental attention. I needed the additional control to avoid another dizzying smack in my head with the mouth gag. Didn't like using the nose twitch, although its use achieved what we needed at the time. Managed to wean off from its use over a few visits and this was from doing small amounts of work on his teeth and giving him frequent breaks (reducing duration and frequency as we worked), before he became impatient with it all.

Whether one should be used in the OP's case is another matter. I would be quite reluctant but I think this decision should be one made in consultation with the trainer, who would know the horse, where I don't. But my hesitation is that the twitch would be applied even before the horse exhibited its unwanted behaviour.

Edited September 3, 2007 by Erny

[Erny]

Double post.

Edited September 3, 2007 by Erny

[Erny]

Triple post. sorry ....

Edited September 3, 2007 by Erny

[Benji's Mum]

I see nose twitching as a last resort and emergency measure only and must be done in the presence of an experienced person.

Pinching a fold of skin on his neck with my hand is the next method I would probably try after normal handling, reducing his feed and increasing his salt didn't produce results.

[sidoney]

Yes, I agree with Erny. Twitching is a short term behaviour management tool, not a behaviour modification programme that will see constructive changes for the long term.

BTW, Erny, was "he mentions" a typo? I know you often get the "he", although I can't recall getting it myself!

Edited September 3, 2007 by sidoney

[BJean]

You can try a twitch on his top lip, or pinch a fold of skin on his neck or hold one ear.

After watching the vet try for half an hour to get hold of his nose to apply a twitch last year, I think I will give it a miss. (I shouldn't laugh but I'm sure he did it on purpose - let the vet get hold of his nose, and then throw his head up 'throwing' the vet away ) Also if he puts his head up I can't reach his nose or his ears . I don't want to encourage him to do this - not when he lowers his head to be tacked up, groomed, washed etc

When I first got him it took me a few months for him to lower his head and allow me to brush between his ears etc - even when we had 'issues' over the weekend ;) he still lowered his head for me, so I don't want him to start having to worry about his head being in 'danger'.

:p

[poodlefan]

I used to have to handle a friends horse that was a rearer..

I was dabbling in natural horsemanship and used the Parelli approach.. make it uncomfortable for them and the behaviour diminishes.

Soooo natural horsemanship rope halter (the kind with the knots on the nose piece), very long 12 foot? lead rope with the big clip under the chin.'

Up he went.. .and I gave him plenty of lead rope and flipped it back and forth like a snake.. hard. It throws their balance nd the clip moves the whole halter a bit. Down he went.. .and thought. We moved off.. up he went and I moved away in front and let the rope swing rapidly again.. .and down he went. A few more feeble attempts and he learned that rearing was not rewarding.

He never reared for me again.

Personally, I'd be inclined to find a natural horsemanship trainer and have a few lessons with the 7 games and a bit of problem solving. It works.

Edited September 3, 2007 by poodlefan

[Erny]

BTW, Erny, was "he mentions" a typo? I know you often get the "he", although I can't recall getting it myself! :p

Sorry Sidoney. I don't think it was a typo. For some reason I had you as a "he" in my mind. Not sure that I was ever given a clue to thinking otherwise - if I did know better, then I'd forgotten ...... sorry . But now I know better. ;) Hope you didn't mind the gender mix up, just as I don't really mind about it when it happens to me. :p

Lilli - I'd avoid the twitching for all the reasons you mention.

I've got "driving" (from the ground) in my mind, but this would take some expert supervision and instruction. Have done it in the past with one of my boys and was great for control, flexion, carriage and forward movement. Could be tricky in a situation where your boy rears and you don't have enough room to move nor move him on though. So isn't something I'd work on until and unless he was trained to it.

Edited September 3, 2007 by Erny

[BJean]

It can be uncomfortable for a horse to stand for a farrier. Holding up a leg can be tiring and strain the muscles. This may be happening to your boy. How long do you hold his legs up for, in training?

(You may also want to get him physically checked, in case he's having some pain.)

If he mucks up, it's usually either stroppy mucking up (don't want to do this, it's hard work) or nervous mucking up (this is hurting, I'm worried I'm going to fall over or get whacked or that something bad will happen). Not always easy to tell which.

I'm giving you a link here to the first page in a sequence of pages that give you some tools to help train calm behaviour with the farrier. The first one is circling to get calm behaviour with the farrier and the second one is clicker training for calm behavior with the farrier. Particularly if the horse is nervous, emphasis needs to be on rewards.

If you can, get a training partner to be the "farrier" so you can work with the exercises regularly. Remember to work on duration of holding the leg up.

Thanks for the link sidoney - if I make a consistent effort I think we can get there

I think him muckingup is nerves and not knowing what is going to happen or expected of him. But maybe also a bit stroppy when he has had enough? The trainer said he is used to throwing his weight around and obstacles giving way to him, so maybe this is part of that? Hmm don't know - will just try a few things and see how we go

[Erny]

Whoops! Don't know what happened then. Did an edit to previous post and POP!!!! Copied it into a new one.

And now I notice the bottom part of my "confused" emoticon is missing. ;) Now it's not.

Edited September 3, 2007 by Erny

[Benji's Mum]

If you're not already, loop some baling twine to your tie-up area and attach the lead rope to it with a quick-release knot, hopefully will reduce the destruction by breaking easily if he pulls back or whatever.

[BJean]

If you're not already, loop some baling twine to your tie-up area and attach the lead rope to it with a quick-release knot, hopefully will reduce the destruction by breaking easily if he pulls back or whatever.

Thanks BM -

when he first arrived he was breaking the twine, and then using his chest to barge out. he would go fwd, meet the gate or barrier, pause at the sound and then just keep going (such a doofus :rolleyes: ).

He is not allowed to be 'locked' in anywhere now - we've decided if he really wants to exit the bulding, it is best to just let him go.

But this has improved heaps and there hasnt been any damage for a while.

If there's food about, he'll stay put

[Benji's Mum]

ok, next questions, what was the vet trying to treat when he wouldn't let him twitch? Was he successful and how did he do it?

I'm a bit worried that you're letting him barge all over the place getting away with murder which is all well and good until eg something life-threatening happens and he needs stitches or stomach-drenching and he won't let the vet treat him.

Have you got a totally destruction-proof yard that he can't barge thru where you can start calling the shots (once he's pooped out the Lucerne).

[KOE]

If he thinks with his guts as most of them do, nose bag him, we have a bitch of a mare who can play up mary hell but her entire life is thought of with her stomach :rolleyes: .

On goes the nose bag usually with sweetbulk and you can pick up any foot and do what you like. Or you can use a tranquiliser paste if all else fails.

How could I forget

He is a big gorgeous boy

Edited September 3, 2007 by isaviz

[BJean]

ok, next questions, what was the vet trying to treat when he wouldn't let him twitch? Was he successful and how did he do it?

The vet was trying to administer an injection.

being an ex CSL horse (serum horse used to produce snake anit-venom), he is distrustful of men he does not know, vet equipment in particular. And once he works out there is something to do with injections going on, he is not happy.

Eventually the vet was successful (I got the horse to lower his head while the vet applied the twitch)

I'm a bit worried that you're letting him barge all over the place getting away with murder which is all well and good until eg something life-threatening happens and he needs stitches or stomach-drenching and he won't let the vet treat him.

When he first arrived, he didn't respect fences that much, nor did he feel secure. He also had never been taught to stand and wait etc so really he was only doing what he knew to do.

When it was very dry over summer and the electric fences were not working, he would just push through and meet me at the hayshed if I took too long (and broke our routine) :rolleyes:

But he just strolled up and met me (almost died of shock when he first did, not funny to turn around and bump into big doofas ) and then followed me back to his paddock.

Primarily most of what he did wrong was because he didn't know. Although 6yo, he was like a youngster in the mind, because he had never known the world outside the herd he ran with on the old CSL grounds. He was easily forgiveable bcz once out, he didn't hoon around, just walked innocently about as if that was the done thing. There really is nothing you can gain (or do) from trying to forcefully restrain a horse of his weight and strength, that is acting out of fear. If he was acting out AND knew better that would be different, but the trainer told me to treat him like a youngster and just have heaps of patience and earn his trust.

He was very easy to worm at first (didn't know what the paste was) approached eacgerly thinking it was food, and then - yuk!

Not so easy for me next time though

Edited September 3, 2007 by lilli

[Benji's Mum]

Good on you for persevering, he's a stunner.

The nosebag sounds good. I guess I've tried to prepare them before the vet, farrier or tooth fairy arrive by practicing what will be reasonably be expected of them, until they are comfortable with it so the visit isn't overly stressful.