Purpley Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Was speaking to Shoemonster today and we were talking about the fact that we think that we hold back our dogs, or cause them to behave the way they do in training. My scenario is : **I take Bronson to training at a certain obedience club and he gets really funny, and won't do what i know he CAN do. Last week we were doing drops, now Bronson can drop both on voice command, and just hand signal, but he wouldn't do it. Yes, the grass was wet which was part of the reason, but he was cowering, like he thought I was going to hit him. I don't hit him ever, so it was quite upsetting to see him behave like this. Now at this training club a while a go one of the trainers really upset me and I ended up in tears. This happened a couple of times. **I have just started taking him to a new club and he is wonderful. Eager to learn, is enthusiastic and does everything perfectly. So I think its me. I am nervous at the first club because of what happened with the instructor, there is also people there that I know, and I guess I feel like I am being judged all the time. Second club, I feel comfortable at, no one to be judgemental. Its also a more relaxed club, not focused so much on trialling (which I don't want to do with Bronson). So after all that, I guess my question is: Do you think that in certain ways you hold your dog back??? I think that had I stayed at club #1, we wouldn't end up getting any further. So I think I do hold him back. Gosh what a ramble, hope that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 (edited) Makes lots of sense to me I am with you, I know I hold them back, and I am thrilled for you that you've found a comfy place and Bronsy is doing SO well, I am very proud of you! Edited to add, I think alot of confidence comes with experience, and I've said before that I have never trained a dog before, and everyone has to start somewhere, and even though we may not be doing things perfectly at least we're not giving up Edited August 31, 2007 by shoemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Isis,your post made perfect sense.You answered your own question well.Like you said you were running on a past experience and the Dog reacted to where you were coming from. Isis,along the way whether it be Horses,Dogs whatever we have probably all held things back.The Key is my Book is firstly being aware that we are holding progress back and then seeking a way/s to change what we are doing inorder to facilitate ongoing growth. A certain amount of self analysis is part of the process.You seem to have it pretty well worked out. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry's Mum Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 I am sure I hold Perry back with herding - I am confident someone else could get her to a much higher standard than I ever will, but on the other hand she is a much loved dog and knows it and we have fun and she is healthy and happy and when you get down to it that is what is important to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Gosh what a ramble, hope that makes sense. Made sense to me. Video is a good teacher if you can stand to look at yourself on video. I was wondering why my dog was backing out from conformation judges until I realised that my attitude to the judges' approach was signalling "OMG, Scary Monster!" Shoulders up, mouth shut tight, rigid hand on the lead. Oy. No point saying to the dog that there's nothing to worry about if you're signalling WORRY with everything you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 . No point saying to the dog that there's nothing to worry about if you're signalling WORRY with everything you do Thats my biggest problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Absolutely I hold my dog back - she's the kind of dog I'd like in 5 years time to see how much further I could've gone with her, given she's such a good dog with a novice handler... I keep thinking "what would she be like with a handler with more experience?" BUT she doesn't know that... so I figure as long as we're having fun then that's what matters! From what you've written isiss, Bronson is picking up on your nerves and is reacting accordingly. Good on you for finding a club where you both feel more confident. One thing I learnt from my few years studying natural horsemanship is that it's only a mistake when you don't recognise it. If you realise that maybe you're not asking the right question, or maybe you're asking the right question the wrong way, then it's not a mistake, just a learning experience. It'll just take a little longer. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Hi Issis Firstly, a cowering dog (during training) is usually a confused dog. It is not uncommon for dogs to go through learning plateau's in which they seemingly display no idea of previous exercises learnt. Just be patient if that happens, they dont usually last very long. Secondly, anyone that I have ever known in dog training carries some regrets regarding the way they trained their first dog, me included. The more dogs you get under your belt, the quicker they are to train, and the more confidence you will build in your own ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 (edited) I take Bronson to training at a certain obedience club and he gets really funny, and won't do what i know he CAN do. Last week we were doing drops, now Bronson can drop both on voice command, and just hand signal, but he wouldn't do it. Yes, the grass was wet which was part of the reason, but he was cowering, like he thought I was going to hit him. I don't hit him ever, so it was quite upsetting to see him behave like this. Going a bit off topic I realise ...... but I did this with my girl (since departed ..... miss her heaps still) who was also well versed in "drop" and very reliable. She too wouldn't complete the "drop" command and gave me a *look* and appeared to "cower" (of sorts) when I verbally corrected her. She completed the drop though. But what a heel I felt when I released and rewarded her only to find that there was one of those prickle weeds right underneath her belly where I'd made her drop. :D Boy, did I feel guilty. I should have trusted her more to know better. Sorry Kal. Edited August 31, 2007 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvawilow Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Absolutly I agree. I know I'm holding my oldest dog back (I am working on improving that though). With obedience I use to go into the ring and think "Oh s#$t I hope she doesn't do anything naughty" then she would and I'd be like "yep, she screwed up again". Problem is me - bad body language sending dog wrong message - me not confident. She's my first dog and thankfully very forgiving and a quick learner so we are slowly working on fixing up past bad habits. In the agility ring it is DEFINATELY me, I'm a bit slow with my signals and because my dog is fast it drives her crazy (her trying to run and me co-ordinating moving, breathing, avoiding obstacles and directing all at once I am getting better and one of my other dogs has started in the obedience ring and we are experiencing none of the "Oh s#$t" moments - it doesn't even cross my mind. As feralpup said as long as we're having fun then that's what matters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purpley Posted August 31, 2007 Author Share Posted August 31, 2007 I take Bronson to training at a certain obedience club and he gets really funny, and won't do what i know he CAN do. Last week we were doing drops, now Bronson can drop both on voice command, and just hand signal, but he wouldn't do it. Yes, the grass was wet which was part of the reason, but he was cowering, like he thought I was going to hit him. I don't hit him ever, so it was quite upsetting to see him behave like this. Going a bit off topic I realise ...... but I did this with my girl (since departed ..... miss her heaps still) who was also well versed in "drop" and very reliable. She too wouldn't complete the "drop" command and gave me a *look* and appeared to "cower" (of sorts) when I verbally corrected her. She completed the drop though. But what a heel I felt when I released and rewarded her only to find that there was one of those prickle weeds right underneath her belly where I'd made her drop. Boy, did I feel guilty. I should have trusted her more to know better. Sorry Kal. Erny - I am sure she knew that. Bronson also completed the drop, but the look was horrible. It was definately the wet grass cause when I took him over to the concrete he dropped straight away and was happy to do it. Staffords who think they are going to melt when they get wet ;) I am glad there are others out there that feel the same way, I don't feel so silly now. I reckon the dogs are the smarter ones in the combination, when it comes to training. Its a whole new world. Off to training at new club this morning, and I am so excited. So nice to feel like I 'want' to go, instead of I 'have' to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 (edited) Erny - I am sure she knew that. I think so too, Isiss. Bronson also completed the drop, but the look was horrible. It was definately the wet grass cause when I took him over to the concrete he dropped straight away and was happy to do it. Staffords who think they are going to melt when they get wet ;) I know what you mean - but in the scenario of "wet ground" I still expect the dogs I work with to complete the drop. No excuses there and I train for it. One day I might need to rely on my dog's reliability in obedience - no matter wet or dry ground. Apart from feeling like a 'heel' when I unknowingly made Kal complete her drop on the prickle weed (and I wouldn't go out of my way to do things like that on purpose) I was so proud of her. She didn't like it (obviously) because it would have been considerably uncomfortable if not a tad painful, yet she still complied, albeit that I needed to add the verbal correction. When I have a dog under my control - one known for a good level of training in drop, I am now a bit suspicious when/if the drop command is reluctantly/partly observed. I try now to check the ground a little more thoroughly beforehand. I've once or twice stopped someone else in class who were unknowingly about to command a drop when their dog was standing over a prickle weed. But not drop because the ground is wet? No ..... I WANT that to happen. I might NEED it to happen one day. However - ONE of the important components of dog training is that the handler enjoys it so that the dog enjoys it. In this, I'm pleased you have found what you want. Happy training. Edited September 1, 2007 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 I think the day I say I can't improve my handling/training is the day I will give up training dogs as it will mean I have lost all perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridgie_cat Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 Certainly I can improve a LOT in all areas - but the worst is herding!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purpley Posted September 1, 2007 Author Share Posted September 1, 2007 Erny - I understand about the dropping on wet grass being important, and thats one thing I have thought about since. Now when the grass is wet, I have been taking him out to get him to drop and he has been fine with it. I think he could of felt threatened aswell, as there was 2 trainers standing over him, one telling me to pull his legs from underneath him etc. It was quite a threatening situation for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 (edited) Well as Isiss will agree today I realised that though I may hold my dogs back, they are people who are holding theirs back much much more! I guess its good to see it in perspective sometimes Had a really good day today and am feeling really positive too Edited September 1, 2007 by shoemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 (edited) Most definately!! Ive always said its not the dog but the handler thats the problem, if they had a more experienced handler they could have gone far but alas they got stuck with me ;) I try my best and learn every day i train them, they will eventually get to a level that i hoped for them just alot later then expected!! We all have heaps of fun though and thats the main thing IMO Edited September 1, 2007 by tollersowned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purpley Posted September 1, 2007 Author Share Posted September 1, 2007 We had an excellent day today aswell. Bronson was awesome, training was awesome. I am loving it. It certainly makes a huge difference when both trainer and dog are enjoying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres my rock Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 totaly agree isis its important to find a place where you feel comfortable dogs are so sensitive to our moods and pulling legs sounds quite hands on lots of dogs dont like that especially when they are already feeling vunerable yes you wnat your dog to drop everywhere but its better to make it so rewarding that he cant wait to hit the ground thast all im saying but good for you for changing clubs where are you going now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 Sure- I think I hold my dog back. Being a very inexperienced trainer and only having trained 1 (now 2) dogs I think I am holding them back. If I were to give Leo to a more experienced handler who didn't fumble around when they are confused, I am sure he would have progressed much faster and probably would achieve much more than I ever will with him (having said that, I have high hopes with him). BUT - part of the fun of dog training is trying to reach both you and your dogs potential.... together! So if we don't get our Masters agility or our OC, I don't really mind as I know that what we have achieved is the best that we could achieve as a team together :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now