My Puppy Growled At Kids Today :(

[deltron]

I thought I had socialised my pup really well (the dog in my signature) but on taking him for a walk today I realised perhaps not.

We were walking down the street and on the opposite side of the road was a little girl (9yo i guess?) who saw my pup and said "oh a puppy" can called for her siblings/friends to come and look. Thier dad was there and he asked if it was ok if the kids could meet my pup (the other 2 were about 7 and 8).

The kids were very polite and my pup and I walked over the road to where they were. The kids came over and my dog started growling at them. The kids backed off some, and then one got his hands and knees and slowly offered his hand toward my dog, and again my dog growled. I tried to reassure my dog but he would have none of it, he was hiding behind me with his taile between his legs.

I apologised to the kids and told them my pup was scared and it was best if they didn't pat him in case he bites and I told them that we can come back another time when he is better socialised with kids. They were very nice, polite children and I felt sad to dissapoint them.

I realise now that 3 kids coming toward him must have been quite threatening but I guess I wasn't expecting it as if it were 3 adults or 3 dogs it wouldn't have been a problem.

When we first went for walks he shyed away from kids who wanted to pat him while on walks. However since then, he had been in contact with kids at puppy school and he was very friendly towards them.

It's imperative for him to be friendly towards children as he is a very cute little dog that seems to draw kids in like a magnet.

Can anyone suggest some techniques for introducing him to kids while on walks that won't intimidate him?

I don't have any interaction with kids, so my dog never sees them apart from when he is out of the comfort of home. The only suitable kids I know for him to meet are the niece and nephew of my OH. Any tips on how to socialise him with them safely?

Edited August 28, 2007 by deltron

[pie]

Were they being quite noisy or making loud noises?

That may have scared him a bit?

I would suggest introducing him to one child and asking the child to be quiet, calm, and not move quickly, let Charlie approach the child at his own pace? It is also possible he was worried because he was on lead and couldn't get away?

Hard to say though, Kyzer was a bit bewildered when my little cousins came over, but soon learnt that they were great fun to play with!

I am looking forward to hearing other peoples responses

[Poodle wrangler]

Sorry, I don't know how to socialise him with kids, but have read that kids are really scary to many dogs. Compared with adluts, kids have sudden, jerky movements, often loud and unpredictable. Not your dog's fault and I think you did the right thing in what you told the kids . Frightened dogs can bite, especially if cornered.

Watch kids because often their parents don't.

Whole groups of kids have come rushing up to my smaller dog, screaming, hands outstretched over his head- very threatening from a dog's point of view. I put my hand right near his mouth and fend off the kids, teaching them only to pat under his chin, one at a time. Hazards of cute dog ownership .

Hopefully the trainer types will be along shortly ...

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Some dogs are simply more protective when out on the lead. Doesn't mean he's going to dislike kids other than that but personally, I never let anyone touch most of my dogs. They don't necessarily like all the fuss when they're out and about but love people coming to my house.

[Rebanne]

You need to make the effort to take your pup to places like kindergarten and school. Keep to a distance your dog feels safe at and treat and treat and treat for every time he shows interest in the kids. Ears up and tail relaxed. You might have to start by sitting in the car. Utilise your niece and nephew. Decide how important it is to you that he "loves" kids. He won't be so appealing to them once grown.

I have a 11 month old greyhound, loves people to bits. But kids, they are scary! I have no kids here and no plans to socialise her to them. Kids aren't a factor in our life.

[Clyde]

My swf is terrified of smaller kids and will growl if they approach. He's improved since having my own, but still less accepting of strange kids. Perhaps some DOL'ers with children could help set up some visits in a park or something. Children armed with treats etc. Kids often come over wanting to pat Angus, I say Sorry no, but you can pat the black one instead (Rotti) they usually decline - if not them, their parents do... poor George LOVES kids!

Edited August 28, 2007 by Dru

[Gwinganna]

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article....d=0&aid=144

http://www.dogscouts.com/childrendogs.shtml

It's a start anyway...

[Lowchenlove]

When I first got Ted he was terrified of small children. Luckily my own kids are all teenagers so it wasn`t a problem at first but if we had visitors with kids he would tremble and hide under the nearest bit of furniture. 18 months later and he is brilliant and a changed dog. I am lucky that he is not an aggressive dog but basically I have closely supervised every approach that children have made towards him.

I did not reinforce his fear by comforting him or picking him up when he was scared but almost "jollied" him out of it. Every time he has allowed a small child to pat him I have lavished him with praise and treats so that he associates it with good stuff. You don`t say how old your pup is but don`t they go through a period of time when they get extra scared? Where is Erny - he would know this.

I agree when you have the cute fluffy type dogs it is important to get them used to kids because you will constantly be approached by them and it does make life a lot easier. I am not an expert but pehaps find a child he can get to know well and then slowly allow him to meet more.

[deltron]

You don`t say how old your pup is but don`t they go through a period of time when they get extra scared? Where is Erny - he would know this.

Hi Lowchenlove, he is 4 months old - it's the dog in my signature.

[Kavik]

Kaos was scared of kids too. Especially if they came right up and patted him, and there was more than one. More younger kids, teenagers he was fine with. He went through a period of barking at them.

What I found has helped heaps is to be armed with heaps of treats and ask kids if they will give your dog a treat. It is hard purposely going up and asking people, but it helps so much! This way, Kaos would approach the kids on his own to get the treat, instead of the kids approaching him. He has improved heaps and is now a wiggle butt around kids, though he is still rather quiet when they come right up to give him a pat, but he usually then settles. The attitude of the kids and the way they act makes a big difference.

[deltron]

Treating the dog and keeping treats with me for kids to give him is a good idea - i'll start doing that.

I'm going to set up a meeting with some kdis and charlie. I think i'll let him come up to the kids when he is ready, rather than them approaching him, and take it from there. The kids are quite good with dogs as my brother in law has a little jack russell and they have patted and played with in the past.

[Monah]

Ah your dog is a gorgeous little thing. My viz is still undergoing 'kid' training at 18 months. She is frightened of them. I thought taking her out around kids might work but I think it didn't help at all. One on one is probably best. The treats idea is good too. I was told to have a 'nice' child have their back to the dog and drop a treat and keep this up (not all at once, just a couple of times a day or week) until the dog is happy to go up to the child. Take 'face to face' greetings very slowly once the dog is ready, after the face to back greetings. We haven't found a suitable child guinea pig , ours are grown up. But she's the first dog I've had even out of older rescues, who doesn't like children. It doesn't affect us so much now, but I'd like her to be comfortable with kids in case we have little visitors, or god forbid, grandchildren Alos important for when kids want to pat her as we go out a lot.

[Erny]

You don`t say how old your pup is but don`t they go through a period of time when they get extra scared? Where is Erny - he would know this.

Hi Lowchenlove ..... you are referring to the "second fear impact period" but that's not until later (approx 8-14 months of age - can be earlier and later depending on the breed of dog and the individual dog within the breed .... ie around the time of sexual maturity). In this case the pup is just on the cusp (if not past) its "critical period" .... the period of time when 'permanent brain development' is completing.

This pup needs socialisation and desensitisation and the OP needs to receive instruction on how to do it correctly so as to not make a situation worse than it is. It is all about LOTS and LOTS of FREQUENT exposure but at non-traumatic distances (but at the same time, at a distance that the pup is aware that - in this case, kids - are around). And every experience when kids are in proximation must be a positive one for the pup .... work to make him WANT to have kids around - have him see kids as a 'bonus'.

PS .... Lowchenlove - it doesn't worry me (and hey, my name IS mis-leading ) but feel that I would be lying by omission if I didn't tell you that I am a "she".

Edited August 29, 2007 by Erny

[polomum]

Maybe to take the stress away for you as an owner I would suggest purchasing a soft muzzle.

They are made of really soft nylon and inhibit biting, barking and chewing but the dog can

still drink..... We have just taken on a rescue greyhound and with 4 cats running around I

had to be sure I could trust 'Ice' with fluffy ragdolls...

If you tried this with your cute little dog it would take the worry away for everyone just in

case he snapped to start with. At least at 4 mths you've got an easier job than with an

older dog - especially a greyhound who'se life has been one of encouragment in chasing

fluffy things....

Hope this is of some help to you and your dog especially such a gorgeous small dog and

quite irresistable to children I'm sure.....

[Erny]

Maybe to take the stress away for you as an owner I would suggest purchasing a soft muzzle. They are made of really soft nylon and inhibit biting, barking and chewing but the dog can still drink.....

All the soft muzzles I know of would prevent the dog from drinking, when fitted properly. In fact, not only that, but they prevent the dog from panting. As panting is a dog's natural cooling system, leaving a soft muzzle on a dog for any lengthy time would be dangerous and possibly fatal to the dog.

Is there a new style of soft muzzle that perhaps I am not aware of? If not, then I would seriously caution anyone against using a soft muzzle on a dog unless for very short durations (eg. max 10 minutes .... less to not at all in hot weather) AND ONLY when supervised.

PS Polomum - Sounds to me that you are describing a cage muzzle ........ NOT a soft muzzle. Cage muzzles are generally made of wire/steel mesh, although there are some that are made of a plastic type. I am not overly familiar with the latter, but would hesitate to use them either for any length of time because I'm not convinced that air flow is sufficient for the dog over extended periods.

ETA: Oh - and although cage muzzles do stop bite injuries, I promise you that they still hurt if a dog decides it wants to have a go. In working with dogs, I've come away with some mighty big and dark bruises from the cage muzzle crashing into my legs. Hate to think what it would or could do to a child's face. Better than a bite - sure. But don't wish for anyone to be lulled into a false sense of security.

Edited September 1, 2007 by Erny