First Ever Obedience Trial (ccd)

[Hyland Mist]

Hi

I was at Moorabbin with one of my Borders, silly me had done about 4 hours of herding the day b4 and he was not with it. My GSD had her first trial and got a pass and a place (AM) but in the PM trial her heeling was good, she refused downs and sits during the heeling pattern. I always withdraw if I am noy sitting on a pass.(Both in CCD)

2 Trials were too much for her on her first outing. The judges we had were fantastic and helped out where they could with suggestions.

I also trial in Open and have come across only 1 judge to be rude, and tell me that my dog is too exhuberant and needs to be calmed down. She is 7yo, loves the ring and I would rather that then trial a dog that needs a lot of motivation and ring wise.

Good luck with your trialling. Its good fun and you get too meet a lot of good people.

If you start taking seriously you start making mistakes and getting frustrated and its not worth being there.

Cheers

[dogdude]

I would not enter a pm trial if my dog did not work well in the am trial.

I would continue on to the stays if my dog NQed on one exercise, but if it was clearly not up to standard, I would not have entered in the first place at any level.

I disagree with Ness regarding the risk to your dog in the stays. The dog has just as much to gain by doing a solid one in trial conditions as opposed to failing one. If you proof your dog properly it wont matter. No-one can stop an attack, its just one of the small risks trialling.

I am yet to see one.

[ness]

Hey DD,

Your going to Gina's seminar in Geelong arent you - ask her opinion on putting non qualifying dogs in stays. I don't know what her answer would be as its not a question I have asked her ever (and yep I have asked a lot).

[Hyland Mist]

Hi

If your going to Gina O'Keefes Seminar.. See you there... Im the lucky one attempting to organise it...lol

cheers

[ness]

Oh I don't envy the organisation - trying to organise something here at the moment and its so difficult.

[dogdude]

Hi Ness

Some things I,ve formed my own opinion on, and the argument would have to be pretty dam convincing to sway me on that one. I am of the belief that if a dog does fails an exercise because of a distraction, then it simply was not proofed enough, including breaking dogs that want to jump, and almost anything else other than an attack.

It really frustrates me at dog club because the instructors and most of the other handlers would not dream of trying to distract their dogs during stays, and I feel that my own dog is suffering when they refuse to let their dogs jump on mine during stays. My dog is not uncomfortable doing it, he wants to play too.

I think that at open level that they should be thoroughly proofed by then. Funny though, most of the dogs in all classes at my club have trouble with stays. Wonder why

I am looking forward to Gina's workshop though, cant wait.

Edited August 28, 2007 by dogdude

[ness]

Hey DD,

I honestly would be interested to hear what she had to say on the matter. Like I said what I have heard has been from other equally top triallers over there and yep like you I formed my own opinion in the end but I have to say the arguments put were pretty convincing.

I just know that there are a number of dogs who have suffered badly as a result of being "jumped" on during stays at trials and who have had issues down the track as a result. Not saying it might not be something I might consider working though as a training issue when I am in a position to control both parties. I would happy set it up so I dog was running past a dog on the stay if I thought the dog was at that level but it wouldn't necessarily be at a trial distance to start with.

I have had dogs break at training and go tearing straight past my dog - who stayed of course but I just think that trials aren't the place to "proof". My dog will do no more stays in trials then is absolutely necessary.

But then I also won't continue on during individual work if she is off with the fairies either.

[Hyland Mist]

Hi DD

Im an Instructor at my club, after a few weeks of working on stay exercises i start introducing distractions, these may include:

- using one of my dogs

- rolling a ball

- jumping about making noises

- finding some kids and getting them to run past, yelling

- rattling keys, leads.. anything

- Working in the rain & wind etc

I also take my classes near where the agility & flyball classes are working and get them to do stays there. Also near carpark, Club verandah..etc

I am sure u get my drift on what I am trying to achieve.

Cheers

[dogdude]

Of course, it would all depend on the dogs natural temperement as to how far you go while proofing, I have been lucky to date, with my trialling dogs having great social manners regarding strange dogs.

I dont use trials to proof, but use it to test the results of all the hard work in training. I dont trial until I am confident in my dog, I am not one to just jump in feet first. To enter a trail atm I have to beg for time off work, so I dont want to waste my time or money.

[dogdude]

Hi Hyland Mist

Its great that you do that, it should be incorporated right from the beginning.

I guess ex instructors dont make good students, but they dont know that at my new club, just needed a break so I could concentrate on my new dog, they are aware that I have experience though.

I see doing stays without new distractions as a waste of time at the higher levels. At open level you should be just about all out of ideas. My old dog was fully proofed with out of site stays before he even entered encouragement (CCD)

I struggle to find people that will train and help me to proof my dog. This has delayed his trialling debut.

[leopuppy04]

2 Trials were too much for her on her first outing. The judges we had were fantastic and helped out where they could with suggestions.

I also trial in Open and have come across only 1 judge to be rude, and tell me that my dog is too exhuberant and needs to be calmed down. She is 7yo, loves the ring and I would rather that then trial a dog that needs a lot of motivation and ring wise.

Hi HM - I wonder if you had the same judge that I had for Novice one day - who told me I shouldn't need to 'praise' or 'play' with my dog between exercises as he didn't need it..... lol....

I'll be at the Gina OKeefe seminar too - just look out for the crazy person and her 2 equally crazy Aussies

I tend to agree on DD for the stays. I still fail to see how it is more 'risky' putting your dog in for stays (given that they have worked well) if they are on a NQ. If your dog has steady stays - I would put them in for the experience of being around different dogs etc. Like DD said - it all comes down to proofing. We can't baby them every step of the way. An attack may happen at any time and I guess we have to be ready to interfere when need be. I mean - the dog could rush over from the neighbouring ring and go your dog while heeling! Having said that - if my dog weren't stable on the stays - then I wouldn't enter the stays as I don't want to set them up for an opportunity where they won't succeed. Like you Ness - if my dog ins't performing, I will walk out of the ring no matter what i'm up to

Just my 2cents

[PAX]

LP, I think what Ness meant is that there is a risk in CCD stays (most dogs are very inexperienced and often unsteady) and if you are only NQing why take the risk.

[ness]

Correct CCD/CD mainly but I wouldn't bother with open/utility stays for example if my dog isn't qualifying either.

[Silvawilow]

Just thought I'd put my 2 cents worth in!

When I enter a trial in Melbourne I will only enter a double. The reason behind this is because it's a 5hr return trip (minimum) for me and I want to make an entire day of it. However, I will not enter a trial and drive all that way if my pups weren't ready for it and I thought they couldn't pass.

Both my dogs seem to do better in the afternoon trial, my yellow girl is consistant in both but definately sharper in the arvo.

I'm having probs with my black girl's heeling (I'm pretty happy with other stuff) and you'll see us at Gina's workshop - one of us is lean, fit and has shiny black hair and the other one is carrying a bit of extra condition (it helps keep me warm in winter )

I, personally, scratch from the stays if my dogs aren't passing, espcially at CCD. I would hate for them to learn bad habits and then have to re-train when I could have avoided the situation in the first place and (although it hasn't happened yet, touch wood) I would hate for my dogs (who weren't passing) to break and in doing so caused another dog to break who was passing. Our club is good at proofing and providing plenty of distractions on stays- keys, squeaky toys, dog walking among them balls, etc!

[Sayreovi]

I am one of those people who have a dog that if he was stood over, jumped on or basically anything that will freak him out it will take many many months to even get back to a decent level. Especially in the earlier classes where many dogs arent ready for stays and break.

I will not risk any more stays and potential harm to my dog when i cant control it (unlike in proofing)

Each to their own though, and if your dog is steady and will ignore what is going on around him/her i dont see why you cant continue with the stays.

Upset now that ive missed the opportunity to go to Ginas seminar

[BittyMooPeeb]

Yet the whole 'obedience trialling' thing seems to have this HUGE "serious" side (iykwim) where the preception is that judges won't smile about snafus or give you handy feedback.

So did I just get lucky with these two judges? Or is this 'perception' wrong?

Congratulations! We did our first CCD trial recently too. I was overwhelmed with how nice the judge was. I was sooooo bad and she spend ages with me explaining where I was going wrong, giving me tips for improving etc, even though it meant running over time.

The day was a HUGE learning curve - even after being informed in the AM session that I was not to touch the dog once in the ring I still did it in the PM (with an 'ooops, sorry, I'm not meant to do that am I?").

Thats interesting, as I was told it was OK to touch my dog, as long as I didnt pick him up. (in between stays the judge said to relax our dogs, so I picked my dog up and gave him a hug and a kiss. ROFL. Well, he finds that relaxing ....

Hi I had my first trial in the weekend as well, it was a dogs breakfast partly my awful handling mistakes and Midgetguts not liking the wet conditions, just think things can only get better, my judge was nice as well the majority are I have been told,although the steward asked me if I had a rule book :D I got a grand score of 30/100

He got a higher score than Blossom LOL. I didnt even know there was a rule book . Where do you get them?

[SueM]

the clubs normally sell them, re the stays I def put my dog in he didnt have a qualifyling score but members of my obedience club said to for proofing etc, he is normally solid as in groups but he did get up in the drop but merely sat and didnt interfere with other dogs...One dog actually got up in the open ring and humped another dog the dog being humped didnt move

[Kowai]

I would put my dog in for the stays definately even if I knew he wasn't going to pass.. His stays are normally much stronger than his heeling work

The other day I had him in a group down stay and he looked like he was going to fall asleep! The sun was -very- nice and warm I suppose... He put his head on his paws and just sort of closed his eyes.... Luckily he didn't go into dead dog

--Edit--

I guess I'm kind of lucky and unlucky because while training my dog has always been very quiet. At home he can be quite boistorous or while out walking etc but at training he is always so calm! Perhaps its his breed (Staffy) or his age? (5 years) Anyway I've found that we've had an easier time with learning obedience than other dogs and handlers who started at the same time as us because other dogs seem to have SO much energy and have trouble containing it.

This I think has helped so much in particular with my dog's stays as once he's sitting or dropping he's really not going anywhere!

However I think on the other hand I've had more trouble than most with my dog's heeling work. He's really good and keeps up to pace but he tends to be a bit slow when it comes to sitting/dropping/standing. Some days it seems he's just so bored with it all that he doesn't want to do it and refuses! Dropping has been such an issue for us, he would never do it without food before and it's impossible to get him down if he doesn't want to drop - he's too strong! So on days he's feeling lazy the drops are the first thing to go out the window

Sometimes he needs some more get-up-and-go!

Meanwhile my Husky is just like GO-GO-GO!! No attention span, so much energy! But I guess she still is a puppy

Edited August 29, 2007 by Kowai

[PAX]

re the stays I def put my dog in he didnt have a qualifyling score but members of my obedience club said to for proofing etc, he is normally solid as in groups but he did get up in the drop but merely sat and didnt interfere with other dogs...One dog actually got up in the open ring and humped another dog the dog being humped didnt move

That's Ness and my point, if they make a mistake you can't do anything about it as you are not to go to your dog in a group stay. Your dog got to complete an incorrect behaviour and there was nothing you could do about it.

If a dog humped my dog in the stays I am sure she would be very upset as she is very timid and that is a risk I wouldn't take for a Nqing score but that is just MHO, whatever floats your boat.

Edited August 29, 2007 by PAX

[SueM]

How is the dog ever going to learn if you shouldnt do the group stays if you havent got a qualifying score it might be a while before I do get one unless my handling improves ,he is solid as in training he never moves, their is no way of knowing he isnt going to perform in the ring...A long as he isnt interfering with someone elses dog where is the harm? The dog doing the humping was in Open, all the CCD dogs on the day and it was a wet horrid day were fabulous...Its what I am taught at my club any other members at our club on non qualifying scores also did the group stays for proofing.

Edited August 29, 2007 by varicool