Over Vaccination

[Guest]

I, like most responsible pet owners have my faithful, four-legged friend vaccinated yearly, but I have recently read (Dogs Life Magazine) and Dr Archinal Kerri-Anne Kennerley TV Vet) that yearly vaccination is not really necessary. In fact in some cases the injection site has developed tumours among other things. According to the article a vaccination normally lasts approximately 3 years before a booster is required.

I'd like to know the forums opinion on the subject?

Thankyou

Zoom

[morgan]

This is a controversial subject which can sometimes get a bit heated. Look at this link and read some of the research and info. It should answer a few questions.

http://www.canine-health-concern.org.uk/

For the record, I haven't vaccinated a dog after the two puppy shots in 3 decades, but most recommend another shot a year later. After that some never vaccinate again, others do it every three years, others still insist on annual boosters.

Your choice

PS - the injection site developing tumours is usually in cats with the F4 shot.

[Cavandra]

I have alot of articles & websites about the dangers of vaccinating etc on my website

www.geocities.com/cavgold

Go to "Vaccinations"

I do my puppy shots then they all get one after 12 months of age, and dont get another one for the rest of their life.

I have had pups get absesses at the site of injection, and have had a litter become dangerously ill after vaccinating once also, but in general the problems with vaccinations are long term, after the dog gets a build up in their system from annuals.

Vets in USA inject cats in the legs & the tail these days, as they can amputate those when the Cat develops a cancer at the site of injection.

Edited August 25, 2007 by Cavandra

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

Opinions are as varied on this topic as there are people discussing it and my belief is to NOT over-medicate in any sense. I've always vaccinated annually b/c we've had the need to do so, due to moving around the place and therefore exposing our dogs to boarding kennels and environments where many dogs are kept together, plus the added 'bonus' of regional strains of the various vaccine-preventible diseases and illnesses they have been exposed to over the years. I also volunteered to foster care pound dogs so it was vital my own dogs were fully vaccinated - I would never risk their health by failing to vaccinate them while bringing in dogs straight from the pound usually with NO vet history behind them.

I've known for a long time that vaccines routinely given annually are 'good' for around three years...and have asked a number of vets about this and whether annual vaccinations were still necessary. I drew the conclusion that our lifestyle indicated a need for annual jabs rather than risking the longer interval b/c of what our life involved. We are hopefully staying in Darwin a few years - it hinges on whether I can get a secure job - and if so, we are likely to reduce the dogs' vaccinations to three-yearly. We will fully vaccinate this year b/c our new vet uses the 3 yr protocol and will most likely give a certificate that states the dogs are vaccinated for the 3 yr period (as far as I know, that's what he will give us, I'm yet to confirm this). I want to take Molly to obedience classes and vaccinating the dog is a requirement to entry to the grounds and the club. We will be going away later this year...and boarding the dogs for a week. So they have to be vaccinated for that too.

I use western veterinary medications for heartworm prevention and intestinal worms. But I use herbal remedies and vitamin/mineral/oil supplements for other things including joint inflammation, skin allergies, and my greyhound's slipped disc (she has Metacam available for the acute phase and I use this for the absolute minimum time to effectiveness). I also use frontline plus for flea and tick prevention but I split one vial (to suit a 20kg dog) between 3 dogs weighing 4.5 kgs, 16 kgs, and 23 kgs. I only use it when I see either a flea or a tick and have used it three times this year in total.

I think it's important to discuss this particular issue with a vet that you can trust. Some will insist on an annual vaccination even when they know it's not necessary. Others will have the desire to treat your pet with your wishes and intentions firmly in mind. And others will give poor advice based upon making money over your dog's health and wellbeing. If vaccinations do cause some of the things that opponents believe, then those vets are laughing all the way to the bank. But I don't believe that any decent human being would continue to use a product that causes harm to an animal if they do so with that knowledge. They're mostly professional, caring individuals and if yours is not, then find one that is motivated by the love they have for animals first and foremost.

HTH.

edit for typo...no such word as "joing" - oops.

Edited August 25, 2007 by lillysmum

[NaturallyWild]

There are even more "extremes" that are being currently investigated - more so in relation to human vaccinations, but the same applies to any other animals being vaccination. This is that vaccinating at all is causing more problems than it solves at the moment. The biggest issue being looked at currently is that the mercury that is used to preserve the vaccinations are causing developmental problems, in particular autism in humans (see website: http://autismmedia.org/media2.html). There is also other research that has looked at the comparison of vaccinations vs homeopathic vaccinations over 20yrs - very interesting stuff done by a Dr Isaac Golden over 20yrs (i'm still looking at this at the moment, but the basics were that no vaccinations were best if possible (resulted in less allergies, illness, etc) but did suggest limited vaccination depending on likelyhood of being exposed to diseases in combination with a homeopathic program to help with adverse effects from vaccinations).

The thing with the 3yrs protocol is that is the vets "safe" time limit that they have come up with, but vaccinations are well known to last many years exceeding this depending on the type of disease it is dealing with (how often do we get vaccinated for the same disease? eg 10yrs tetinus).

My personal thoughts (at the moment - and i know they will probably change somewhat with more knowledge and research) are that vaccination are partly dependant on the risks of the disease depending on where you live and the conditions that are being exposed to (ie kennels on a regular basis) and if the circumstances require vaccination then it would occur in the first 6month period of life and then preferably never again - the focus is more on providing the most healthy diet and lifestyle so that the body can fight off any diseases itself. Both vaccinations and titre tests (to check antibody levels) are not a 100% guarantee that a specific disease will not effect you or your dog, but i feel that there is a guarantee that there will be some negative effects from vaccinations that can be just as bad or worse than the disease itself. Overall its a balance that needs to be addressed depending on the risks.

[Jed]

My dogs have 2 puppy shots (C3 or C4), another at 12 -15 months. Then no more. I have been doing this for about 10 years. If the dogs are out and about, they are boosting their immunity through being exposed to various viruses etc.

I also do rescue, so have unvaccinated pups and dogs here. I have never had one of my own dogs with a virus -- despite having pups with parvo on 4 occasions. Edited to clarify - dogs/pups which I have brought here for rescue have had parvo (not my own dogs), and my own dogs, on the above vaccination regime, have not been affected.

A titre test, which indicates the level of protection the dog has, is available from some vets for about the same cost as a vaccination. I had 1 tested at about 5, who had not been vaccinated since 12 months - her immunity was very high.

Edited August 26, 2007 by Jed

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

One of my dogs has been on chemo for 4 years, I have only just discovered that there is no point vaccinating whilst they are on such meds, the vet didn't tell me but when I asked, they confirmed this was the case.

[poodlefan]

It's all about risk management. You weigh the risks of over vaccination against the risks that your dog, given where you take it and what you do with it, will be exposed to the diseases.

Right now I vaccinate annually in accordance with the advice of my trusted vet. When she starts vaccinating her dogs three yearly, so will I.

Other people weigh the risks differently - vive la difference.

[carabelle]

I do my puppy shots then they all get one after 12 months of age, and dont get another one for the rest of their life.

I have done this for over 30 years for both dogs and cats and never had a problem yet. If you do not have to have children/adults vaccinated every year why would you have to have dogs and cats - never made any sense to me. My good friend is a virolugist and has always done the same with her furkids.

Carabelle

[Poodle wrangler]

Also depends on where you take your dog.

Obedience clubs and kennels have varying requirements for vaccination, so best to check this aspect out, also.

Most are still requiring yearly vaccinations, though some clubs are accepting titre testing (within normal range).

Sorry, I've lost the original link, but am sure you can google for it. I've skipped straight to the vaccination one (...) and added the bold + italic type:

Gazette APVMA 6, 7 June 2005 page 12

NOTICE OF REGISTRATION OF AGRICULTURAL AND VETERINARY CHEMICAL PRODUCTS

......

4.VARIATIONS

Product Name: Protech Duramune C3 Canine Distemper, Adenovirus & Parvovirus Live Vaccine

Applicant Name: Fort Dodge Australia Pty Limited

Summary of Use: The changes included the instruction leaflet to indicate that the vaccine are efficacious and protective in six week of age and older dogs for up to thirty-nine months following a second vaccination.

Date of Variation: 4 April 2005

Label Approval No: 51487/0205

[Monah]

Vacc last 3 years. The main reason for yearly ones is so that people remember to do it, as many would forget after 3 years. I do all my pets yearly, just makes me feel safer, I saw many horrible deaths when I was a child due to cat flu, distemper etc. when vacc either weren't available or no education around. Also seen the effects of parvo, hideous. I don't know anything about the scientific data, just gives me more peace of mind and after 48 years of animal ownership, never had a problem with any vacc.xxx

[sidoney]

I've been titre testing and not vaccinating, although after a conversation with my (good) vet, I had one of them boosted, as she was due to be mated, to make sure that the pups would have maximum maternal coverage.

[Ianto]

Where do you get your titre testing done Sidoney?

[Tassie]

And, Sidoney, could I ask how much it costs to have the titres done - and are they for all 3 things covered by the C3?

[sidoney]

Titre tests were done at All Natural Vet Care, Russell Lea, in Sydney.

Here is a link to a fact sheet they provide about vaccinations and titre tests.

The cost was less than it normally would have been as my training club obtained a discount for numbers. I don't really remember what I paid, sorry.

ETA: My usual vet is Karen Hedberg at North Richmond.

Edited August 28, 2007 by sidoney

[morgan]

Any vet in the country can do titre testing as it only involves sending a blood sample to the lab in Perth. My local vet rang them and said it would cost around the $100 mark. He looked at their brochure first and said they didn't do it, but checked with them later and let me know

[Tassie]

Thanks for the info, Sidoney and morgan. I might look into it next year before shot time, I think.

[InspectorRex]

I am with poodlefan. I trust my Vet as she is up to date on all the latest( she lectures at Vet Uni).I usually do C3 every year but this may change if my Vet goes to the 3 year protocol