Please Help - Ruptured Disc In Neck Of Rotty

[Bacchus]

This is the first time I've posted here but I really need some advice.

My 10 year old Rottweiler became paralysed today with no warning. He was lying down and simply couldn't get back up. We took him to the vet who tested his reflexes (ok), his temp (ok) and tried to get him up into a sling. He could put no weight on his hind legs (his toes would curl up), his front legs were tentative but it was his head movement from side to side that hurt him the most. He was in major pain, they sedated him and are doing blood work tonight just to rule out any infection (cancers etc).

They have advised that they could do surgery, no guarantees on effectiveness, value of about $3000 - $5000. They advised though that due to his age, due to the general thought that Rottys are potentially predisposed to cancers etc at this age, that we should consider putting him down.

I really don't know what I should be doing. I love him dearly but would I simply be putting an old dog through more pain if I was to proceed with the surgery? Does anyone have any advice? Please? :p

[Dogsfevr]

I had a dog that had spinal surgery,he came out worse after the surgery.It took 6 months of intense physio bu ourselves to get the dog to take 1 step,it was 12 months before he was capable of walking about un assisted .

He was unable during this period to toilet himself & we had to do it,even afterwards his control wasnt great.

This was a small dog.Would i do it again i will be honest & say i would have to seriously consider my past experience.It was alot of work & thankfully we worked from home because it was like living with a disabled person & he needed alot of after care ,physio,muscle build up etc etc

[Bacchus]

Thank you for your honesty. I just don't know what to think - he's such a wonderful dog. I want to do what's best for him - I just don't know what that is.

Thank you again.

[Erny]

Bacchus - no advice from me, I'm afraid. This is out of my league. But thinking of you and your Rotti boy. Wish you the best - whatever path you elect to take will only be because you care.

[cowanbree]

Are you sure he has hurt his neck? I have had a sheltie that I found without any warning collapsed outside, she couldn’t walk and was totally out of it. Rushed her to the vet and he told me it was an inner ear thing which nothing other than time would cure. To be honest I didn’t believe him as how could an inner ear thing cause my dog not to be able to walk, have rapid eye movement and have a head tilt and sway but it was. Over 2-3 days she came out of her daze and over the next 4 weeks she learnt to walk again. No medication, no operation and while I won’t say she ever completely recovered (was very unsteady on lino and had a permanent head tilt) she went on to live a quality life for another 12mths. Apparently this is quite common in older dogs and often misdiagnosed as either a stroke or spinal issues

[Bacchus]

Are you sure he has hurt his neck?

Unfortunately yes, he was in serious pain (shaking and heavy panting) anyway but to turn his neck was agony and even when he did it himself (lured by a liver strip), he would yelp and shudder as he turned his neck. Even in a supported sling, he can't let his hind feet touch the ground as it is too painful.

Thank you though for your advice, it would be devastating to make a decision based on a poor diagnosis. It really does make you think. Thank you as well Erny - your post brought tears to my eyes.

Edited August 6, 2007 by Bacchus

[Guest Pandii]

YOur poor person

I really feel for you

You and you alone can make the descion that is right for you and yours

Thinking of you and your poor old boy

[Erny]

Bacchus - you could try for a second opinion, particularly as the current diagnosis is so grim. How does your Vet know it is a ruptured disc? Xrays or some such?

You could try consulting with a very good chiropracter and seek his/her opinion.

I've had Vets diagnose anything from "nothing wrong" to "unfixable" and yet have successfully resolved skeletal issues with the gentle manipulation by a very knowing, chiropracter in my proximate location.

ETA: I don't want to give you false hope. But whichever way this goes, you'll be comforted by the fact that you sought to remove any doubt ...... even if that doubt isn't present right now.

Edited August 6, 2007 by Erny

[Guest Pandii]

Bacchus where are you, I know a great Chiro down this way

[cavNrott]

Unfortunately yes, he was in serious pain (shaking and heavy panting) anyway but to turn his neck was agony and even when he did it himself (lured by a liver strip), he would yelp and shudder as he turned his neck. Even in a supported sling, he can't let his hind feet touch the ground as it is too painful.

Thank you though for your advice, it would be devastating to make a decision based on a poor diagnosis. It really does make you think. Thank you as well Erny - your post brought tears to my eyes.

Bacchus I feel for you. This brings back so much sadness to me. Just over 6 years ago my beloved 13 1/2yo Rottweiler suffered a sudden paralysis of her spine. She could not move her back legs at all.

I phoned the vet and managed to get her into the car by supporting her back end with a sling.

The vet immediately gave her strong pain relief and heavily sedated her and she stayed in the hospital overnight. He booked an orthosurgeon to come to see her at 8am the next morning. The ortho xrayed her and phoned me to say there was severe degeneration of the spine and she would never walk again. I elected to have to put to sleep whilst she was still under the anaesthetic. I got there in 10 minutes to be with her as she left me. She was still on the xray table.

That was the first time my dog had ever spent a night away from me and looking back I now know there were signs of this degeration, I just didn't recognise them for what they were. She was such a stoic dog who would hide her pain.

I was devestated for a long time at the loss of my heart dog but I knew I could not put her through a painful surgery just to keep her alive just for my sake. She wouldn't be able to toilet without my assistance or walk. She was a dignified and noble girl and I could not take that away from her just because I didn't know how I could go on without her.

I hope the prognosis is better for your dog and I'm feeling your pain and reliving mine too but I know I did what was best for my Sheba.

I'm sending prayers and healing vibes to you and your dog. Please keep us informed.

[shmoo]

oh Bacchus what a horrible place to be right now. I hope whatever decision you make goes well for you. I would be so undecided as well.

cavNrott: you're making me teary eyed!

[cavNrott]

Bacchus - you could try for a second opinion, particularly as the current diagnosis is so grim. How does your Vet know it is a ruptured disc? Xrays or some such?

You could try consulting with a very good chiropracter and seek his/her opinion.

I've had Vets diagnose anything from "nothing wrong" to "unfixable" and yet have successfully resolved skeletal issues with the gentle manipulation by a very knowing, chiropracter in my proximate location.

Erny, from my experience this condition is very painful for a dog and transporting them around just isn't possible without causing intense pain unless the dog can be transported on a stretcher so the dog is imobilised. I would suggest what I did with my dog and have an orthosurgeon come to the vet surgery and take xrays. Xray is definitely needed for diagnosis.

It could be Wobblers, that happend to my son's 9yo Rottweiler. His problem (on xray) was in the neck and was extremely painful. The vet put him on strong pain relief and sedation as my son did elect to take him to a good vet chiropractor who did manage to slightly relieve the neck pain. It was diagnosed as Wobblers and surgery was discounted as it's extremely painful with a poor prognosis. However my son's dog was not paralysed.

With the strong pain relief the dog was able to walk but fell over a lot with the typical Wobblers gait but he was basically an invalid. My son had another couple of months with his dog and then held him while he was put to sleep.

[stormie]

Are you sure he has hurt his neck? I have had a sheltie that I found without any warning collapsed outside, she couldn’t walk and was totally out of it. Rushed her to the vet and he told me it was an inner ear thing which nothing other than time would cure. To be honest I didn’t believe him as how could an inner ear thing cause my dog not to be able to walk, have rapid eye movement and have a head tilt and sway but it was. Over 2-3 days she came out of her daze and over the next 4 weeks she learnt to walk again. No medication, no operation and while I won’t say she ever completely recovered (was very unsteady on lino and had a permanent head tilt) she went on to live a quality life for another 12mths. Apparently this is quite common in older dogs and often misdiagnosed as either a stroke or spinal issues

This condition is called Vestibular Disease. Affects the vestibular system deep in the inner ear and causes all the symptoms you described (the nystagmus (eye movements) head tilt etc). In older dogs its generally referred to as Geriatric Vestibular Disease (or Syndrome) and there is often no particular cause, it just happens, and usually goes away slowly over a few weeks.

In this situation, Bacchus, the best thing will be for you to communicate often with your vet. I wouldnt recommend a chiro for this particular problem (just my opinion), as it sounds like his neck is just too unstable to be worked on.

Has the vet done x-rays yet? That way they will be able to see the extent of the damage within the vertebrae and the subsequent damage to the spinal cord. Best thing you can do, would be to leave him in the hands of your vet, where he will have plenty of pain killers and cage rest.

Am thinking of you. Let us know how he is going.

[cavNrott]

Is Vestibular Disease painful though. I thought it caused disorientation but was not particularly painful. Bacchus seems to be exhibiting a fair level of pain.

[Bacchus]

Thanks for your ideas everyone.

They haven't done X-Rays yet, just a lot of manipulation. Due to the pain level, they wanted to stabilise him overnight whilst they did the blood work, then investigate more after their team meeting in the morning (it is a University Vet Centre and all specialists will be on board in the morning). Personally, I think that the blood work is a search to check for 'something else wrong' to assist our decision. I can't get him to a chiro - he is in too much pain however post X-rays, it may be something to move toward.

I will review with the vet in the morning. Bacci is such a gorgeous boy - I hate that he is going through all of this. He has always been so wonderfully healthy. Apart from a little of what we thought to just be arthritis sneaking up in the past few winters (which, looking back, may have been a warning sign of his spinal issues), he has rarely had a health issue.

My 3 year old son is still dealing with the loss of our beloved border collie last September when both she and Bacci decided to jump the fence at our new house and she was hit by a car. We were so lucky that we were able to take Bacci home, the people who had hit Jess took them both to the Emergency vet - he was thankfully unharmed. Ironically this is the same vet he is now staying at.

I will let you all know how it goes tomorrow.

[joelle]

Shit, Bacchus, Im so sorry for you. Cant help with any advice unfortunately just letting you know Im thinking of you. I am in training tomorrow and will be thinking of you as Im supposed to be learning I wont have access to my puter tomorrow until 6pm but I will be checking to see what happend in the vets team meeting.

We are all thinking of you at this sad time when you have to make some real tough decisions. Whatever you decide will be for the best, Im sure, you obviously love the old boy dearly :p

[cowanbree]

Is Vestibular Disease painful though. I thought it caused disorientation but was not particularly painful. Bacchus seems to be exhibiting a fair level of pain.

No not painful as far as I could tell so it doesn't fit in this situation

Edited August 6, 2007 by cowanbree

[Allerzeit]

Bacchus, I have no better advice to offer than that which has already been provided.

I just wanted to send you my thoughts and prayers. My heart is just breaking for you

[stormie]

Thanks for your ideas everyone.

They haven't done X-Rays yet, just a lot of manipulation. Due to the pain level, they wanted to stabilise him overnight whilst they did the blood work, then investigate more after their team meeting in the morning (it is a University Vet Centre and all specialists will be on board in the morning). Personally, I think that the blood work is a search to check for 'something else wrong' to assist our decision. I can't get him to a chiro - he is in too much pain however post X-rays, it may be something to move toward.

I will review with the vet in the morning. Bacci is such a gorgeous boy - I hate that he is going through all of this. He has always been so wonderfully healthy. Apart from a little of what we thought to just be arthritis sneaking up in the past few winters (which, looking back, may have been a warning sign of his spinal issues), he has rarely had a health issue.

My 3 year old son is still dealing with the loss of our beloved border collie last September when both she and Bacci decided to jump the fence at our new house and she was hit by a car. We were so lucky that we were able to take Bacci home, the people who had hit Jess took them both to the Emergency vet - he was thankfully unharmed. Ironically this is the same vet he is now staying at.

I will let you all know how it goes tomorrow.

Sounds like your boy is in great hands where he is. Hoping everything is ok. Thoughts are with you

[Poodle wrangler]

Sounds like you're doing all the right things for your dog and have a good vet. What more can you do?

A loving owner is the only one who can decide what's best for their dog, given the information you have.

About your 3 year old: To lose your dog would be awful, but kids are very resilient. It would be worse for him to see the dog suffer (if that's the alternative). 3 year olds have poor understanding of death, so you would have to expect a lot of questions about where Bacchus is, if he were PTS . I doubt he really understands that the BC is gone forever, too. I sympathise, a few years ago when we went on holidays, my then 7 yr old son was in tears over not seeing our dog for only 2 weeks. My 3 year old clearly loves both our dogs, too.